Star Trek General Discussion

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

But space is expensive, while time travel to our present day is cheap and allows low-effort commentary on how broken our society is competed to the utopian federation

so I still haven't started, and based on the ongoing commentary here I don't think I ever will, but my understanding of it from reviews is that a combination of climate change, slums, and ICE turned us into a bloodthirsty Terran empire that dominates the galaxy? where do we sign up?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

so I still haven't started, and based on the ongoing commentary here I don't think I ever will, but my understanding of it from reviews is that a combination of climate change, slums, and ICE turned us into a bloodthirsty Terran empire that dominates the galaxy? where do we sign up?

The hamfisted point they might have tried to make about not following these dark paths might be subverted by their own meandering storyline about bringing the borg to the past.

They've really screwed the pooch from a writing and storyline perspective

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Bridgerton has better writing.

I'll have to take your word for it, I couldnt stand Bridgerton. I watched 1 episode to see what all the hubbub was about and then bailed.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'll have to take your word for it, I couldnt stand Bridgerton. I watched 1 episode to see what all the hubbub was about and then bailed.

Meant as a slight to picard and not as a compliment to bridgerton. I've watched about as much as you. But my wife says it's better and I don't have any reason to disagree.

[Locke]

Ugh...I thought the last episode was getting the show back on the right track but they must have fired whoever wrote and directed that episode because this episode felt like it was written and directed by disinterested and perhaps slightly concussed children.

[Wormius]

That end of the episode had some serious Poochie energy going on.

[SutterBrother]

Where is Picard’s brother in all of these flashbacks?

How can this show be this bad?

[Fuzz]

The pausing during tense action moments to have a heart to heart every 30 seconds is incredibly tedious. WTF are they doing?

[sureLoss]

Of all the trillions the Borg assimilated, only Agnes Jurati could convince the Borg queen to change her evil ways. What a joke.

Guess we know who the borg queen was in episode 1. Queen Jurati of the Benevolent Borg

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Of all the trillions the Borg assimilated, only Agnes Jurati could convince the Borg queen to change her evil ways. What a joke.

Guess we know who the borg queen was in episode 1. Queen Jurati of the Benevolent Borg

Its like they're trolling us.

[Shazam]

I didn't really have a problem with that. The queen is all by herself, weak and had to merge into another body.

But the whole show in general is just stupid and pointless.

[Fuzz]

The only intriguing part of this season is Q losing his powers, and they've touched on it for a grand total of 5 minutes.

[CaptainCrunch]

So the terrifying Borg that defined so much of Star Trek, and gave us Lucutis (SP?) is not going to happen, they just accelerated the wrecking of the Borg that Voyager did.



I mean maybe the time line wreckage is that with the new kind lets do good Borg, that species 8472 run rampant in the Delta Quandrant with nothing to hold them back.



I don't know, I'm not a big fan of this one, that the Borg Queen is lonely. In my mind the Borg in their minds don't have a concept of good or evil or morality. They are on a mission of perfection period, the method of doing that is absolutely up for question, but it shouldn't matter to the Borg.



On top of that, with them messing with Soong, Does this remove the rise of the Ubermen, and no Eugenics War that allowed Humanity to rise up against Tyrants and form a global government?



Does the battle of Wolf 359 or whatever become a diplomatic conference with lots of Borg Hugs where they give flowers and hugs instead of brute force destruction. Or are the Borg replaced by species 8472?


Does Earth never evolve into a global benevolent government because there's no shocking near world wide destruction due to trying to build the perfect leaders?


This season has had some bright points, but like Discovery the overall story telling is just a mess.



We are the Borg.
Lower the Shield and prepare to receive our Ambassedor.
She is bringing Cookies and Ice Cream.
Our Culture will adapt to Servicing you.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So the terrifying Borg that defined so much of Star Trek, and gave us Lucutis (SP?) is not going to happen, they just accelerated the wrecking of the Borg that Voyager did.



I mean maybe the time line wreckage is that with the new kind lets do good Borg, that species 8472 run rampant in the Delta Quandrant with nothing to hold them back.



I don't know, I'm not a big fan of this one, that the Borg Queen is lonely. In my mind the Borg in their minds don't have a concept of good or evil or morality. They are on a mission of perfection period, the method of doing that is absolutely up for question, but it shouldn't matter to the Borg.



On top of that, with them messing with Soong, Does this remove the rise of the Ubermen, and no Eugenics War that allowed Humanity to rise up against Tyrants and form a global government?



Does the battle of Wolf 359 or whatever become a diplomatic conference with lots of Borg Hugs where they give flowers and hugs instead of brute force destruction. Or are the Borg replaced by species 8472?


Does Earth never evolve into a global benevolent government because there's no shocking near world wide destruction due to trying to build the perfect leaders?


This season has had some bright points, but like Discovery the overall story telling is just a mess.



We are the Borg.
Lower the Shield and prepare to receive our Ambassedor.
She is bringing Cookies and Ice Cream.
Our Culture will adapt to Servicing you.

It's also possible, that there are now/have always been 2 Borg collectives. The original one in the D Quad and the Jurati Borg somewhere else, who haven't fiddled with the Federation until we see them in Episode 1. The ship in episode 1 was a Borg ship, but it wasn't necessarily THE Borg the federation has been dealing with all this time. That is/could be first contact with the Bjorg (get it..."J" for Jurati...and it looks more Swedish...it's perfect!)

I'm not really in love with the season at all, but I can logic myself into some consistency on that front at least.

[timun]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Lucutis (SP?)

Locutus. Comes from the Latin verb meaning "to speak" (but don't ask me which tense/gender/declension it is...), because he 'spoke' for the Borg. You see remnants of the Latin in English words like elocution.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Of all the trillions the Borg assimilated, only Agnes Jurati could convince the Borg queen to change her evil ways. What a joke.

Guess we know who the borg queen was in episode 1. Queen Jurati of the Benevolent Borg

In fairness to all of this, it is the first time we have ever seen a Borg Queen in a situation where her collective is one. At this stage, in this universe, she is an individual. Likely for the first time ever post-creation. It's probably less that "only" Agnes Jurati could convince the Borg Queen to change her evil ways and more so that since it was "Only Agnes Jurati" her voice carried so much more weight than a single voice normally would for the Queen.

Now, I agree that the way they went about it was a bit stupid. It had me thinking of Austin Powers and "We're not so different, you and I". An emotional plea to someone or something that should be much more immune to emotional string pulling. I think if it was just hammered home that in almost every time line or Universe, the Borg always failed and that another tactic was worth trying to succeed in their goal, which for all intents and purposes is Universal harmony,

I was also confused by no Robert, which definitely stuck out for me over the course of the flash backs. I also hate the flashbacks. And Soong. And the Elnor Hologram. And how the Elnor Hologram interacted with Jurati who litereally isn't actually there anymore. And the throwing away of a chance to alter Seven's character in a unique way. And their reasoning for not letting Seven of Nine join the Federation cause she was Borg but apparently Icheb, who was also Borg, was allowed in. I also hate how they did Icheb dirty in season one and then did him dirtier by forgetting he existed in season two. Rios side story is the only compelling one now, and I didn't think I'd say that three weeks ago.

I'm less excited for the season finale now than I was coming in, and that's sad.

[direwolf]

Yea, this season has not been very good. It started out strong and a couple of the episodes in the middle were quite good. But this latest episode was pretty bad. It's too bad, because I like the characters, and I really enjoyed season 1. I'll wait until after the finale to give a final verdict, but right now it's not looking great.

[Inglewood Jack]

over just the course of 2 seasons when your Executive Producer team is this

Rod Roddenberry
Trevor Roth
James Duff
Patrick Stewart
Heather Kadin
Akiva Goldsman
Michael Chabon
Alex Kurtzman
Terry Matalas
Doug Aarniokoski
Dylan Massin

and your Director team is this

Douglas Aarniokoski
Jonathan Frakes
Hanelle M. Culpepper
Akiva Goldsman
Maja Vrvilo
Joe Menendez
Lea Thompson
Michael Weaver

and your Writer team is this

Kirsten Beyer
Michael Chabon
Akiva Goldsman
Alex Kurtzman
Nick Zayas
Christopher B. Derrick
Juliana James
Matthew Okumura
Kiley Rossetter
Terry Matalas
Cindy Appel
Jane Maggs
James Duff
Christopher Monfette
Sam Humphrey
Ayelet Waldman
Travis Fickett

chances are you're going to get an...eclectic mix of ideas. I know that too many cooks is a tired cliche, but seriously, how many damn cooks do you need to show and tell a good Star Trek story?

[Fuzz]

Well now we know why they don't have the budget for space scenes...

[Monahammer]

Yeah what is this, a feedlot?