Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Wormius]

Yeah, but don’t pretend you’re mud spray is an investment.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Really?
Wouldn't almost all art depreciate?
I think you're using a sampling bias by only thinking of renoun artists. I bet the vast majority of original art sold goes down or even to zero.

Actually no, most art doesnt depreciate as most art isnt bought for value, its purpose is decorative, you pick something that matches you MCM dinning room look and it fulfills that purpose neither gaining nor losing value as its value is purely esthetic

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by indes

It's wild to see people still just referring to crypto as a singular asset with a singular use. The misnomer of "cryptocurrency" really underscores the utility of some of the projects.

The fact is that right now there are thousands of legitimate entities trying to solve real world problems. To say "we can solve all the problems with the tech we have now" is ridiculous. True, but ridiculous. I mean I could walk everywhere or buy an encyclopedia, heat my house with fire or heal my wounds with a poultice.

Barely any of finance is day to day payments, billions aren't being invested to speed up your purchase at a tim Hortons drive thru (which is already "instant"). For finance it's the behind the scenes settlement that some companies are trying to solve (XRP, XLM, R3, Strike) which can take 3-5 days for real value to move right now and cost a fortune.

Filecoin and others are working on decentralized storage solutions

Sologenic is working on the tokenization of stocks to cut out the middleman and exchanges

Vechain is working on supply chain information and tracking.

There are many more cryptos trying to solve different problems. I think the space is still very immature and will follow a similar path to the invention of the internet. How many people used the internet, or thought it would be useful in the 90s? It has a long way to go but I think once governments launch CBDCs we'll start seeing a massive migration to the crypto space for other areas than finance.

I don't want to sound like a cheerleader here, I do own a few crypto assets but not a significant amount. It just seems like there's a lot of disinformation in this thread in regards to what crypto assets even are.

Also I think Bitcoin is stupid and people's love for it is getting in the way of real crypto adoption.

The thing I have never understood about all of this block chaining is why do you need millions of computers to achieve any of this though? couldn't and inevitable won't we end up with a few hundred computers scattered around the world, probably controlled by central banks or some supernational body that can provide all the same function at a vastly cheaper and more secure manner?

[indes]

It depends on the chain and their system, some have distributed ledger technology with several nodes or some have verified validators.

The caches of CPUs and mining equipment is for Bitcoin and Ethereum and other outdated inferior assets. The power required to mine or confirm transactions is insane. It will be nice when the speculative market takes a backseat to real adoption and utility.

Proof of Work (Bitcoin and ETH) is garbage technology compared to newer crypto assets that are close to or are carbon neutral. Again these two giant assets are holding back the industry and giving it a bad name. They are truly the AOL and Netscape of the crypto space.

Algorand, Terra Luna, Casperlabs, Chain link are all eons ahead of Bitcoin and ETH in terms of transaction speed, transaction cost and environmental impact.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Yeah, but don’t pretend you’re mud spray is an investment.

Well it was for the people that make money from it

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well it was for the people that make money from it

no that's an income, I guess the fake mud company might be public in which case it would be an investment for the shareholders

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

no that's an income, I guess the fake mud company might be public in which case it would be an investment for the shareholders

The company is publicly traded...fake mud isn't their only product though lol

I didn't dig too deep but I am guessing truck testicles too

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The company is publicly traded...fake mud isn't their only product though lol

I didn't dig too deep but I am guessing truck testicles too

That’s the stock purchase that made Trump super rich right?

Real estate just sounds better than making billions selling truck nuts to right wing nuts.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well to start only 70% of Americans own a CC. This number is 95% in Canada.

In Europe this drops significantly

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/ran...8.02%20percent.

LOL.

That's like saying Europe doesn't have as many landline phones as the US. Credit cards are not a measurement for technical advancement.

Credit cards are a pre-internet solution to cashless purchases, born in the age when companies couldn't instantly and trivially check whether you could pay for what you were buying.

Debit cards were the wired internet equivalent. Mobile banking and payment apps are the mobile internet equivalent.

Americans use credit cards because they need to build that credit rating thing which isn't really a thing in Europe and frankly sounds like a capitalist dystopia, and apparently banks also push them at people really hard there. That's not really a thing in Europe, at least not for consumers. Here, credit cards are among the more expensive ways to pay for stuff, and you don't use one without a special reason.

In Finland, there's three main use cases for a credit card:
- You don't have the money to pay for something right now
- You want extra consumer protection. (Examples would be certain large purchases for things that are paid weeks or months in advance like plane tickets and hotel rooms, or online shopping from smaller sites you're not 100% familiar with.)
- You're using a company account.

For everyday purchase we use a debit card, or increasingly just our phones or mobile apps. Cards are typically used for stuff like groceries and clothes, online purchases are mostly done with mobile apps, bank provided or third party. (Mobile banking is more common and convenient than desktop banking.) Only older people still use a lot of cash. You can easily go months without paying anything with cash here, and it's now easier to find a place that doesn't take cash than a place that doesn't take a debit card. Younger people don't necessarily even own a wallet.

For example I was watching my daughters gymnastics competition yesterday, organized by a local gymnastics club, and tickets were only available online or at the door with a card or mobile, because dealing with cash is just too much of a hassle.

[keratosis]

Can't remember the last time I had cash in my pocket.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by keratosis

Can't remember the last time I had cash in my pocket.

Well, fiat paper money is about 1,000 years old as a technology, so it's had a good run.

[karl262]

It's much easier to steal/hack credit card info than a wallet seed phrase.

It's great that credit cards have the built in protections that they do and all they ask in return are very reasonable interest rates up to 30% and ~4% merchant fees. Thanks Mastercard!

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by karl262

It's much easier to steal/hack credit card info than a wallet seed phrase.

It's great that credit cards have the built in protections that they do and all they ask in return are very reasonable interest rates up to 30% and ~4% merchant fees. Thanks Mastercard!

If you are paying interest on your credit card you are using them wrong, you should never hold a balance (unless it's 0% interest on a CC), also ~4% is quite the exaggeration.

Mastercard is 1.55-2.6%
Visa is 1.43-2.4%
American Express is 2.5-3.5%

Also if someone illegally uses my credit card the transaction is reversed, I had a restaurant that I visited here in Calgary charge my card at the start of COVID and the charges were gone within 48-hours.

If someone steals my CC (or debit card), I lose nothing, if someone hacks my wallet I lose everything.

Another risk factor to crypto, if I lose my passphrase, I lose everything. If I lose my pin to my CC, I contact them, they ID me and they reset my PIN.

From a pure risk calculation, the 1.43% to 3.5% isn't that expensive to not take the risk with my own personal currency, actually, I don't use my debit card anymore (except at one shop) because of this risk calculation. Also, it's not like crypto doesn't have transaction fees, if I want to buy lunch with ethereum the current transaction fees over the last two months on $20 bucks would be 5-50%.

Something interesting is doing bulk transfers into a CC that is backed by crypto, but then you're paying your CC transaction fees, you are just changing your currency from FIAT to Crypto.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

Another risk factor to crypto, if I lose my passphrase, I lose everything. If I lose my pin to my CC, I contact them, they ID me and they reset my PIN.

The 0.6Btc I have in a wallet that I can't access anymore but can see clearly on the blockchain knows all too well.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

The 0.6Btc I have in a wallet that I can't access anymore but can see clearly on the blockchain knows all too well.

ouch!

[Krovikan]

I decided to google something "how many people forget their password"

Spoiler!

Commissioned by OnePoll on behalf of LastPass, researchers reveal that memorizing passwords is so difficult that two in three respondents (65%) say they will forget it unless they write it down somewhere. More than half of Americans say they have to execute at least five password resets each month on average;

I didn't think it was this bad, not having access to password reset would destroy the world economy, and just think they are forgetting to write down their password...

[karl262]

If you can't access your crypto that means you're doing it wrong.

[afc wimbledon]

The more I think about it crypto in a wallet seems like the digital equivalent of burying your gold coins in the back yard

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Itse

LOL.

That's like saying Europe doesn't have as many landline phones as the US. Credit cards are not a measurement for technical advancement.

Credit cards are a pre-internet solution to cashless purchases, born in the age when companies couldn't instantly and trivially check whether you could pay for what you were buying.

Debit cards were the wired internet equivalent. Mobile banking and payment apps are the mobile internet equivalent.

Americans use credit cards because they need to build that credit rating thing which isn't really a thing in Europe and frankly sounds like a capitalist dystopia, and apparently banks also push them at people really hard there. That's not really a thing in Europe, at least not for consumers. Here, credit cards are among the more expensive ways to pay for stuff, and you don't use one without a special reason.

In Finland, there's three main use cases for a credit card:
- You don't have the money to pay for something right now
- You want extra consumer protection. (Examples would be certain large purchases for things that are paid weeks or months in advance like plane tickets and hotel rooms, or online shopping from smaller sites you're not 100% familiar with.)
- You're using a company account.

For everyday purchase we use a debit card, or increasingly just our phones or mobile apps. Cards are typically used for stuff like groceries and clothes, online purchases are mostly done with mobile apps, bank provided or third party. (Mobile banking is more common and convenient than desktop banking.) Only older people still use a lot of cash. You can easily go months without paying anything with cash here, and it's now easier to find a place that doesn't take cash than a place that doesn't take a debit card. Younger people don't necessarily even own a wallet.

For example I was watching my daughters gymnastics competition yesterday, organized by a local gymnastics club, and tickets were only available online or at the door with a card or mobile, because dealing with cash is just too much of a hassle.

Do debit cards offer cashback or reward points over there? That's the only reason I use my credit cards... for the reward points. Pay them off each month but get my points to pay for flights or gift cards or whatever.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by indes

It's wild to see people still just referring to crypto as a singular asset with a singular use. The misnomer of "cryptocurrency" really underscores the utility of some of the projects.

The fact is that right now there are thousands of legitimate entities trying to solve real world problems. To say "we can solve all the problems with the tech we have now" is ridiculous. True, but ridiculous. I mean I could walk everywhere or buy an encyclopedia, heat my house with fire or heal my wounds with a poultice.

Barely any of finance is day to day payments, billions aren't being invested to speed up your purchase at a tim Hortons drive thru (which is already "instant"). For finance it's the behind the scenes settlement that some companies are trying to solve (XRP, XLM, R3, Strike) which can take 3-5 days for real value to move right now and cost a fortune.

Filecoin and others are working on decentralized storage solutions

Sologenic is working on the tokenization of stocks to cut out the middleman and exchanges

Vechain is working on supply chain information and tracking.

There are many more cryptos trying to solve different problems. I think the space is still very immature and will follow a similar path to the invention of the internet. How many people used the internet, or thought it would be useful in the 90s? It has a long way to go but I think once governments launch CBDCs we'll start seeing a massive migration to the crypto space for other areas than finance.

I don't want to sound like a cheerleader here, I do own a few crypto assets but not a significant amount. It just seems like there's a lot of disinformation in this thread in regards to what crypto assets even are.

Also I think Bitcoin is stupid and people's love for it is getting in the way of real crypto adoption.

I think most people are on the same page as you here - at some point in the future there is probably a use for crypto currency. But at this current time - its vapourware with some investment potential.