Russia invades Ukraine

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

So you think a tennis player from Russia should be banned from a tournament. Why? Because they are from Russia. You are banning them because of where they were born. Mighty racist of you.

You think an employee of Russian decent should be fired based off his/hers views about Russia?

Why stop there? If you don’t believe in religion you are fired. If you don’t believe in my religion you are fired.

You do realize there are laws out there for a good reason correct? To prevent stuff like this from happening.

By the way it is Ukraine not “The Ukraine”. I should of multi quoted that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this was racial, wouldn't it be mostly slavic people from the country of Russia being banned? I think as an ethnicity they make up about 80% of the Russian people.

If people hated Americans (and many do), I don't think they would be called racist.

And that is correct, I now don't give a crap if Russian athletes are banned from competition. Just like I don't care if Russian soldiers in Ukraine die.

Multi quote all you want about how the country is referenced. common error many people make.

While you're here, are you finally going to tell us why you don't support Ukraine in this war? You originally said it's because they don't share our values.

Still waiting for you to explain what values we have that they don't, that makes you anti Ukraine.

I may be ignorant at times and make uninformed opinions, and I'll own that. I'm not the smartest but try and keep up.
At least I'm not intentionally a dick to people and flat out unhinged.

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by you&me

OT, but I've hired devs off of Upwork that have worked outside the system and used paypal & payoneer to pay them... Not sure if those platforms still work with Russian banks, but you certainly don't need to wire directly to a Russian account.

Yes, I used to get freelancers asking that often a few years ago, but Upwork has really cracked down (at least with the devs I’ve talked to on recent open jobs) to the point where freelancers don’t like to even have calls off of Upwork until we have a contract agreed.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Buying from Gazprom directly helps the Russian economy, which it is the goal of sanctions to cripple. Letting Andrey Rublev play tennis in the UK does nothing of the sort. These people have nothing really to do with Russia or what is happening in Ukraine - they're no more responsible or culpable than Gael Monfils is. The closer analogy would be to fire all of your employees to the extent their last name ends in "ov" or "ova".

If there's a situation like with Ovechkin where someone has directly supported the people responsible and has refused to condemn the invasion, such that they're effectively a tool of the regime to maintain their standing locally, there's an argument for banning that person. If Rublev or Medvedev or Pavlyuchenkova have in fact carried water for the regime, I'm okay if Wimbledon wants to make a statement in individual cases like that. But if it's legitimately just banning people based on place of birth, that's... ridiculous.

And your last paragraph is just silly. No one is saying that Wimbledon can't do this, or that someone has a right to play tennis at a private club. They CAN do this, clearly - they just did. What people are debating is whether they SHOULD.

The goal of sanctions is more than purely financial, in my opinion. Crippling the economy might be a goal, but ultimately it is to persuade the Russian government to stop a war of their own making. Banning Russian tennis players might help, even if only in the smallest manner. But that small message is a message that needs to be delivered, and as such, yes Wimbledon SHOULD ban those athletes. There is no confusion as to why they would be banned, which is why the slippery slope/racial argument is silly.

[Firebot]

Putin seems to have some...major health issues.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517041760865767424

Supposedly they will blockade Azovstal instead of trying to capture it. The bunker busters failed to even reach the bunkers...and storming a complex full of desperate defenders is suicide.

They've held much longer then the grain elevator in Stalingrad and still holding.

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2016/0...or-stalingrad/

[CroFlames]

Who televises conversations like this? Shouldn't commands like this be top secret? LoL dummies.

[Sliver]

Russian athletes should absolutely be banned. Some guy can't play his game? Boo-fataing-hoo. The upside of removing the privilege of just one high-profile individual to hit a ball with a racket could open thousands of people's eyes to how the invasion is viewed by the rest of the world. It's, like, the cheapest and easiest way to send a message to the Russian people ever. You remove enough privileges from enough high-profile Russians and the general populace can't help but notice. It costs $0, but it could save lives in the long run as - hopefully - domestic support within Russia erodes.

The downside is one guy can't play a game. Given the horrors Ukrainians are facing at the hands of Russians on a daily basis, I can't believe people are worried about some stupid Russian athletes. Send them home with a message they're not welcome in the rest of the world so long as their leaders continue killing people and destroying a country.

[Fuzz]

Putin must have gotten tired of the long table jokes.

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517144308016500738

[CliffFletcher]

The main effect of a measure like a Wimbledon ban is to give the people who implement it a bump of good publicity and the people who support it the feeling that they’re taking action against those they hate. YMMV as to how desirable that is as a society.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Russian athletes should absolutely be banned. Some guy can't play his game? Boo-fataing-hoo. The upside of removing the privilege of just one high-profile individual to hit a ball with a racket could open thousands of people's eyes to how the invasion is viewed by the rest of the world. It's, like, the cheapest and easiest way to send a message to the Russian people.

I’m pretty sure the collapse of their economy due to international sanctions has sent that message loud and clear.

Do you think all Russian players should be banned from competing in the NHL?

[Firebot]

Lots of 'unfortunate spontaneous accidents' happening all over Russia today.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517080014868692992

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517118119784951808

Of note the Tver MoD building is where the most recent ICBM launched by Putin yesterday was designed.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The main effect of a measure like a Wimbledon ban is to give the people who implement it a bump of good publicity and the people who support it the feeling that they’re taking action against those they hate. YMMV as to how desirable that is as a society.

Well YMMV as to how desirable that is to a society if you accept your first premise, which I don't.

I think sowing discontent with the war amongst the Russian population is part of an overall strategy to hasten an end to the war and erode support with the goal of saving lives in Ukraine. But twist that however you want.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’m pretty sure the collapse of their economy due to international sanctions has sent that message loud and clear.

Do you think all Russian players should be banned from competing in the NHL?

Sure. At best it sends yet another message to Russia and makes even more Russians unhappy with Putin's war. At worst a guy can't play hockey? Okay, BFD. Women, men and children are being raped and slaughtered by Russians. If Russians can't play hockey, I don't give one single eff. Sorry, Ovechkin, collateral damage and all. Just be thankful you're not getting blown up putting your toddler to bed in Ukraine. That's worse collateral damage.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well YMMV as to how desirable that is to a society if you accept your first premise, which I don't.

I think sowing discontent with the war amongst the Russian population is part of an overall strategy to hasten an end to the war and erode support with the goal of saving lives in Ukraine. But twist that however you want.

Going harder on tribalism and punishing the other because of where they were born rather than anything they have done doesn't seem like a good strategy to work towards a future with positive and peaceful relationships.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Going harder on tribalism and punishing the other because of where they were born rather than anything they have done doesn't seem like a good strategy to work towards a future with positive and peaceful relationships.

Individual citizens from all over the world jumped to support Ukraine. How tribal of them…

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sure. At best it sends yet another message to Russia and makes even more Russians unhappy with Putin's war. At worst a guy can't play hockey? Okay, BFD. Women, men and children are being raped and slaughtered by Russians. If Russians can't play hockey, I don't give one single eff. Sorry, Ovechkin, collateral damage and all. Just be thankful you're not getting blown up putting your toddler to bed in Ukraine. That's worse collateral damage.

I'm still figuring out my own stance on this, but to play devil's advocate... where's the tipping point for you? What's the point where you'd say "well, okay that's a bit too far?"

Banning all Russian national sportspeople? Boohoo, can't play sport.

Banning all Russian nationals working in the entertainment industry, for instance? Boohoo, can't make movies and TV shows.

Banning all Russian nationals working in any industry you want to choose? Boohoo, can't make money.

How about just banning all Russian nationals from entering the country? Boohoo, can't work or go on vacation.

I know, I know, slippery slope...

And does it matter if any of these people being banned are outspoken Putin critics or critical of the invasion?

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517162448456978433

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Individual citizens from all over the world jumped to support Ukraine. How tribal of them…

Explain relevancy to topic of Wimbledon and Russian athletes, please.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Going harder on tribalism and punishing the other because of where they were born rather than anything they have done doesn't seem like a good strategy to work towards a future with positive and peaceful relationships.

It's a defensive strategy to erode support for a murderous invasion of a neighbouring country. The west is supplying arms, intelligence and expertise. I think we can also help on the other front of chipping away at the morale of the Russian people.

Call it tribalism if you want, but I'd call it a piece of a defensive strategy against an invading force.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well YMMV as to how desirable that is to a society if you accept your first premise, which I don't.

I think sowing discontent with the war amongst the Russian population is part of an overall strategy to hasten an end to the war and erode support with the goal of saving lives in Ukraine. But twist that however you want.

Confirming their perceived victimhood by enacting xenophobic policies doesn't sow discontent; it just supports what Putin is saying (i.e. the West is out to destroy Russia).

I mean, who cares about a tennis player; if Wimbledon wants to ban Russians, whatever. But people talking about firing all Russian nationals from their jobs en masse like that's a normal and reasonable thing is downright insane.