What do you think about computer chips under the skin?

[Mr.Coffee]

Alright so here's the story. My family and I went out for dinner, and the topic of emergency wristbands came up (don't ask). I'm pretty sure you'll all know what I'm talking about. Emergency wristbands, or those Medi-bracelets that you can wear around your wrist, indicate to a paramedic or medical official something about you that they need to be aware of- such as an allergy, history of heart problems, diabetes, whatever.

Somebody mentioned the idea that you should be able to get computer chips implanted under the skin, that can be scanned, that will come up on a computer instead of having to wear a wristband. This way people who forget their medi-bracelet will always have it with them, and doctors, nurses and paramedics will always be able to diagnose more accurately.

I then stated that this didn't seem like the best idea, because it provides government agencies with the ability to just monitor everything about you- and that this kind of tagging ability is a slippery slope with the potential to be abused.

That argument was countered with the fact that we are already monitored so much as it is, so what's the difference? Credit cards, debit cards, purchases, taxes, laws, rules, everything is monitored and if the government wanted to know they would be able to know. Whats the difference if its a chip in your body?

At that time I couldn't think any good comebacks... and told them I'd get back to them (that's where Calgarypuck comes in hopefully). I just have this weird feeling that chips under the skin are a really bad idea and will lead to bad things. Am I right? Wrong? Discuss.

[metallicat]

How would the government be able to track you if it only contained medical information?

I will just sit back and wait for people to claim this would be the number of the beast.

[The Goon]

Sign me up! And track me as much as you want:

CSIS guy 1: "He just goes from home to work and back again!"
CSIS guy 2: "No, look! He's going for groceries!"

Compelling stuff.

[Burninator]

If people want to use this as an option under their own will for medical proposes, then I see no problem. But if it is government mandated then we start to slide down the slippery slope.

The argument "that because the government already monitors us so much, what's the difference?" argument is a very poor indeed. Or the argument "I'm not doing anything wrong, so what do I care?" Also a terrible mindset IMO.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Sign me up! And track me as much as you want:

CSIS guy 1: "He just goes from home to work and back again!"
CSIS guy 2: "No, look! He's going for groceries!"

Compelling stuff.

Yeah true.... and that was my family's point. But I just feel uneasy about something like that. I dunno what it is.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

How would the government be able to track you if it only contained medical information?

I will just sit back and wait for people to claim this would be the number of the beast.

The point is that eventually it is going to carry a lot more info than just medical...

the question is does that matter?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

If it is strictly a medical device then why not? You could probably add in a few goodies to help you live longer (examples: It vibrates if your blood sugar/blood pressure is too low etc.).

As soon as you add other features in like being able to track your location, or financial information that is too much IMO...

[worth]

Never.

I suppose medical information would be fine, but I wouldn't do it personally. Still the information would have to be programmed by a private firm most likley, so that firm would have a database on you. If you don't mind that then go ahead, but I would rather have the least amount of people knowing my personal information as possible.

If is was issued by the government as voluntary I would not. And if it were made mandatory under law I wouldn't either.

This is sort of happening in the UK. Except it's a national ID card, not a microchip. Information is being consilidated on one card and into one database. The program is voluntary, however, if you choose not to get a card, it becomes more difficult to do normal things as the card replaces other things.

I could see this happening with something like microchips in the future. Their voluntary, but those people who do it will have some benefits. And those who don't will have a tough time doing things like banking, or entering federal buildings or things like that.

But I think a National ID card is on the way much sooner than the microchip is.

A card could consolidate medical records, criminal records, dna, fingerprints, SIN, drivers license, banking info, debit card, passport and gps tracking all in one and I think there are probably a lot of people who would go for it.

Enabling legislation for the British national identity card was passed under the Identity Cards Act 2006 [1]. The multi-billion pound scheme [2] has yet to enter procurement. The cards will have a lesser role than the database they are linked to, which is known as the National Identity Register (NIR). The Act specifies fifty categories of information that the NIR can hold on each citizen [3], including up to 10 fingerprints, digitised facial scan and iris scan, current and past UK and overseas places of residence of all residents of the UK throughout their lives and indexes to other Government databases - which would allow them to be connected. The legislation also says that any further information can be added. [4].
The legislation further says that those renewing or applying for passports must be entered on to the NIR. It is expected that this will happen soon after the UK Passport Service, which has now been renamed the Identity and Passport Service (IPS), start interviewing passport applicants to verify their identity. [5] Various degrees of concern about the scheme have been expressed by human rights lawyers, activists, security professionals and IT experts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._identity_card

[Flames_Gimp]

i wana get an RFID implanted so i can unlock doors and stuff by waiving my hand at a sensor.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

i wana get an RFID implanted so i can unlock doors and stuff by waiving my hand at a sensor.

Now we're talking!

To be honest, though, I can see this technology being abused. I know I would certainly implant one in my kids so I could know where they are 24/7 without them knowing how. I'm a bit of a like that.

[Mr.Coffee]

What about the marketing possibilities? Now that would be a whole new world. Just thought of that. Going to pat myself on teh back now. I knew there was something fishy about it.

[Burninator]

I still don't quite get your families argument. Are they in favour of having the government track where they are going?

[Bobblehead]

Would the chip include your name? If you were found passed out because of a medical condition, wouldn't you want them to know who you are so they could contact someone, perhaps your spouse or family doctor?

The thing is, any data on there can be grabbed by anyone, friend or foe.

Someone with the right equipment (and it can already be found anywhere - Walmart wants all of its suppliers using RFID to track inventories) they can read anything on those chips.

And it will be easier to read than scanning your credit card because you won't even know that they are doing it.

RFID can be a fantastic and its potential is huge. The problem is the potential for be abused is just as large, and even easier.

(I think Looger knew a lot about this type of stuff - where has he been?)

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I still don't quite get your families argument. Are they in favour of having the government track where they are going?

They are in favor of the medical chips, and believe that even if it does lead to other ways to track people- it doesnt matter because we are already tracked that way. Pretty lame argument if you ask me. At least thats what I told them.

I was just saying that they seem shortsighted.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Would the chip include your name? If you were found passed out because of a medical condition, wouldn't you want them to know who you are so they could contact someone, perhaps your spouse or family doctor?

The thing is, any data on there can be grabbed by anyone, friend or foe.

Someone with the right equipment (and it can already be found anywhere - Walmart wants all of its suppliers using RFID to track inventories) they can read anything on those chips.

And it will be easier to read than scanning your credit card because you won't even know that they are doing it.

RFID can be a fantastic and its potential is huge. The problem is the potential for be abused is just as large, and even easier.

(I think Looger knew a lot about this type of stuff - where has he been?)

My thoughts exactly. But HOW can it be abused is what I'm trying to figure out.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

My thoughts exactly. But HOW can it be abused is what I'm trying to figure out.

What if a business person was afraid of HIV/Aids, and scanned you (without your knowing) before they would offer to sell you anything?

What if it was used for religious didcrimination? I'm sure Jehovas Witnesses would use it to refuse certain treatments. Others could scan just to find out if people were JW.

You put your medical condition on it. The specific condition is controlled with medication. A thief would probably find it easier to steal drugs from a person's home than a pharmacy. The theif just needs to find out what condition is treated with the drug he is looking for and then scan for a person with that ailment. Anyplace that is busy they could just stand nearby and scan - you would never know.

If there is any reason you can think of why you would want to keep your medical history private, then that is a reason not to get an RFID chip implanted. Because as soon as your data is on a chip, it is no longer private.

I'm amazed by the stupid lengths criminals will go to. I have no doubt that they would find many ways to use your medical history against you.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

What if ......

What if ......

I would answer your "what ifs" with the following:

The chip could be programmed to emit a code, say a 16 digit alpha numeric. The doctor's scan tool puts that code into a computer; it links up with a central database, and then the doctor enters his own code in to pull your medical info; like entering a PIN number with a debit card.

That way they can track who has been accessing your info, and your info isn't sitting there for anybody with a scan tool to be able to read.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would answer your "what ifs" with the following:

The chip could be programmed to emit a code, say a 16 digit alpha numeric. The doctor's scan tool puts that code into a computer; it links up with a central database, and then the doctor enters his own code in to pull your medical info; like entering a PIN number with a debit card.

That way they can track who has been accessing your info, and your info isn't sitting there for anybody with a scan tool to be able to read.

What good does that do in an emergency for the paramedics on scene?

[ken0042]

Didn't you ever watch "Emergency!" as a kid? The paramedics have a radio link to a doctor at the hospital; usually one of the senior physicians too. They could just radio it in.

Seriously though, I'm sure there could be some sort of paramedic access via a wireless Intranet connection.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Would the chip include your name? If you were found passed out because of a medical condition, wouldn't you want them to know who you are so they could contact someone, perhaps your spouse or family doctor?

The thing is, any data on there can be grabbed by anyone, friend or foe.

Someone with the right equipment (and it can already be found anywhere - Walmart wants all of its suppliers using RFID to track inventories) they can read anything on those chips.

And it will be easier to read than scanning your credit card because you won't even know that they are doing it.

RFID can be a fantastic and its potential is huge. The problem is the potential for be abused is just as large, and even easier.

(I think Looger knew a lot about this type of stuff - where has he been?)

Not only can they read it, but they could even rewrite it depending on the technology used.. most of it is not nearly as secure as they'd lead you to believe.

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would answer your "what ifs" with the following:

The chip could be programmed to emit a code, say a 16 digit alpha numeric. The doctor's scan tool puts that code into a computer; it links up with a central database, and then the doctor enters his own code in to pull your medical info; like entering a PIN number with a debit card.

That way they can track who has been accessing your info, and your info isn't sitting there for anybody with a scan tool to be able to read.

The downside of that is now there's a single database for all the info, so now the government CAN track you everywhere you go since the unique ID of the device is known.

Not only that, everyone can now track you. Go into walmart, they know when you go in, when you go out, what you buy, what isles you go to, etc etc.. all the big chains get together and share this info... So even though the private info like medical info is secure (with the government, whom I don't necessarily implicitly trust with this info, neither with their ability nor their intentions which could change), the ability to track you as a unique person is still there unregulated by the government.

I wonder if in 50 years this'll be one of the things we'll rant to our grandkids about? "In my day we had privacy!" "Oh grandpa, how would your information agents know how what newsfeeds you like then? Or how would your friends know where you are all the time??"