OT - Question for the "part-time lawyers" Who would be liable in this case?

[Log]

Background - I bought a command starter from a nation wide electronics store in Nov06 and bought it "installation included". In December a problem with my car occured, it was in the shop from late January until this past Monday. Anyways the problem with my car occured, I had the command start disconnected (not taken out) and Nissan couldn't fix the problem no matter what they did. They then decided to remove the command start and return the car to factory state by taking out all the wires - sure enough my car now runs perfectly!!! Nissan even mentioned that the installation wasn't done right and what was done was done poorly.

I find out today that the place I bought the command start from (and place I had it installed), subcontracts a company out to work out of their store and do car installations (stereo, alarm and command start).

So, since the problem with my car wasn't caused by a car defect, rather the installation not done correctly, the car's warranty won't cover the costs. Now, Nissan did mention that they want to come to some sort of settlement in this case and are prepared to eat some of the costs.

Anyways who should Nissan (and I if things don't work out and I get hit with the bill) go after in this one? The place I bought the command start from? Or the installer?

My take is that I bought the command start and installation of it through this store. It was their decision to subcontract the installation out to a third party.

So who do you think should be held liable?

Thanks for the help.

[ken0042]

My unqualified opinion and 6 weeks of contract law in college says the person who you contracted to install the system.

I would make sure there is not fine print that you agreed to (by signing) saying they are not liable for damages caused to your vehicle.

[Titan]

How much are you potentially out of pocket?

[Log]

Originally Posted by Titan

How much are you potentially out of pocket?

Well the parts that Nissan installed were $1,600, labour I think was over $3,000 and the car rental for 16 days was $590 (after 16 days, the dealership had me in one of the cars off their lot). So it could be over $5,200. I think Nissan said they will absorb the cost of the parts and may be able to do some of the labour. The car rental forsure won't be covered by Nissan.

As for signing anything, I will have to check the original invoice to see if I signed that (and will read the fine print), but I didn't sign an additional form or anything.

[Bill Bumface]

I'm in the exact same position as you. I haven't gotten the final bill yet either.

You know whats great? Paying $400 to have your car starter installed at a place that assures you they'll do a way better job than anywhere else only to have it fata up your car a year later and go in the shop 5 times and end up paying over $1000 for one year of having your car start when you push a button. Oh yeah, and another $200 because the remote couldn't handle being dropped to the ground and it smashed.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

I would say without a doubt the person you contracted to do the work is at fault...

Assuming there is no weasel clause my advice is to add a bit of pressure on the nationwide chain by speaking to the highest manager you can and telling them you have no problem taking this to your friends in the media...we had a situation where an oil change company was at fault for wrecking our engine and the threat of the media (and the fact that an external inspection placed the blame squarely on them) gave us definite leverage...

[Log]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I would say without a doubt the person you contracted to do the work is at fault...

Assuming there is no weasel clause my advice is to add a bit of pressure on the nationwide chain by speaking to the highest manager you can and telling them you have no problem taking this to your friends in the media...we had a situation where an oil change company was at fault for wrecking our engine and the threat of the media (and the fact that an external inspection placed the blame squarely on them) gave us definite leverage...

I'm going to talk to the store manager where I bought it. I think I'll take it higher up if I hit road blocks at that level.

[burn_baby_burn]

This thread has inspired me not to have a remote car starter installed in my vehicle.

[Log]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

This thread has inspired me not to have a remote car starter installed in my vehicle.

Command starts aren't a problem..... If they are installed correctly. If you want one, I would talk to the dealership. Even if it costs $300 more, the extra knowledge that goes in for installation is well worth it!

[Bobblehead]

I'm sure if people spoke about their personal experiences and listed specifically which retailers were giving them the issue it would be beneficial to everyone else. I'm considering getting a starter/alarm and would like to avoid the issue you are describing.

[fredr123]

Hey Log: Was this in Saskatchewan?

[Log]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I'm sure if people spoke about their personal experiences and listed specifically which retailers were giving them the issue it would be beneficial to everyone else. I'm considering getting a starter/alarm and would like to avoid the issue you are describing.

I had it installed at Visions in Regina.

If I were to have another one installed, I would have it installed directly at the dealership (and pay however much more they wanted) or have it installed at a place that the dealership recommended.

[housejunk]

As a lawyer it pains me to say this, but with the money involved it doesn't really matter who is liable. Going to court is not a viable option, legal costs/time would far exceed any satisfaction/compensation you would recieve. The auto manufacturer knows this, as does the nationwide chain. A threat of legal action by you would not be taken seriously. Best bet, would be to raise a giant stink with the manager and see what that gets you. Talk about all your friends you'll bad mouth the company too, internet message boards, etc. That'll be far more effective than anything you could attempt legally.

That being said, it took me 4 minutes to write this, so based on my hourly wage (which the law firm gets most of, NOT me...) you would owe me $23. Of course, the minimum amount of time we charge for is 15 min. (no exceptions), so round that up to $88.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I had a really similar problem.
I got a starter installed, and a few months later, I had a problem.
The problem had nothing to do with the starter, but the installation was done so poorly that the dealership couldn't diagnose the problem, because they couldn't clear any faults in the computer.

Anyway, I took my truck back to the store and told them to rip it out, and give me my money back. They tried to charge me to take it out, and I told them to go screw themselves, becasue if they hadn't jobbed it so baddly in the first place, I wouldn't have to have it taken out.

Anyway, once it was out, the problem was an easy fix, but man was it a pain in the ass.

But the best part was, that after having to deal with about 10 people and finally getting a manager, and then arguing with him for half an hour, and finally getting it resolved, I go get into my truck and there's the stupid wiring harness sitting on my front seat. So I take it back inside the store, walk straight to the front of a customer service line filled with about 20 people, toss the harness onto the counter in front of the manager, who is helping another customer, and say loudly enough to be heard "You guys are really on the ball here "Managers name". That felt good. For Bobblehead's sake, it was Best Buy.

Anyway, back on topic.
You didn't sign anything with the comany that they third partied it out to, so your beef is with the store, go through them.

Also, unless the problem was caused directly by the starter, they can't refuse to do warranty work becasue something else was installed, it's the law. Of course if the starter fried something then they can.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by housejunk

As a lawyer it pains me to say this, but with the money involved it doesn't really matter who is liable. Going to court is not a viable option, legal costs/time would far exceed any satisfaction/compensation you would recieve.

I am really shocked to be hearing this from a lawyer. Wouldn't the OP be going to small claims court anyways? If a client asked you about this, wouldn't you send him in that direction?

[Log]

Originally Posted by housejunk

As a lawyer it pains me to say this, but with the money involved it doesn't really matter who is liable. Going to court is not a viable option, legal costs/time would far exceed any satisfaction/compensation you would recieve. The auto manufacturer knows this, as does the nationwide chain. A threat of legal action by you would not be taken seriously. Best bet, would be to raise a giant stink with the manager and see what that gets you. Talk about all your friends you'll bad mouth the company too, internet message boards, etc. That'll be far more effective than anything you could attempt legally.

That being said, it took me 4 minutes to write this, so based on my hourly wage (which the law firm gets most of, NOT me...) you would owe me $23. Of course, the minimum amount of time we charge for is 15 min. (no exceptions), so round that up to $88.

Dammit - I didn't want full time lawyers in here.... Just the part time ones that work for free!!!!

I agree in that the threat of legal action won't scare them too much. M

However, I am (and still will be) a loyal customer for the past 4 years with the same salesman. I have bought some big ticket items from there and refer friends and family there. I have some big purchases in the near future coming up, but will hold off on those until this is resolved - the salesman who I deal with knows this too.

One thing that will help is that Nissan will assist in getting this taken care of. So it isn't some schmuck off the street going against a larger corporation.

[Log]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I had a really similar problem.
I got a starter installed, and a few months later, I had a problem.
The problem had nothing to do with the starter, but the installation was done so poorly that the dealership couldn't diagnose the problem, because they couldn't clear any faults in the computer.

Anyway, I took my truck back to the store and told them to rip it out, and give me my money back. They tried to charge me to take it out, and I told them to go screw themselves, becasue if they hadn't jobbed it so baddly in the first place, I wouldn't have to have it taken out.

Anyway, once it was out, the problem was an easy fix, but man was it a pain in the ass.

But the best part was, that after having to deal with about 10 people and finally getting a manager, and then arguing with him for half an hour, and finally getting it resolved, I go get into my truck and there's the stupid wiring harness sitting on my front seat. So I take it back inside the store, walk straight to the front of a customer service line filled with about 20 people, toss the harness onto the counter in front of the manager, who is helping another customer, and say loudly enough to be heard "You guys are really on the ball here "Managers name". That felt good. For Bobblehead's sake, it was Best Buy.

Anyway, back on topic.
You didn't sign anything with the comany that they third partied it out to, so your beef is with the store, go through them.

Also, unless the problem was caused directly by the starter, they can't refuse to do warranty work becasue something else was installed, it's the law. Of course if the starter fried something then they can.

However if the problem wasn't a manufacturer's defect, why should Nissan cover something that was installed after the fact.

To tell you the truth, I think Nissan would simply settle for having the car rental cost re-imbursed and try to bury the rest.

[housejunk]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I am really shocked to be hearing this from a lawyer. Wouldn't the OP be going to small claims court anyways? If a client asked you about this, wouldn't you send him in that direction?

Quite honestly, I would not send him in that direction. Small claims court expidites trials, but in reality you would still need a lawyer working the case, and with the amount of money involved I do not feel it would be worth the trouble and expense. Technically, a lawyer isn't required in some small claims ajudication, but judges tend to have little paitence for individuals trying it on their own. Access to the judicial system is one of the largest problems facing our legal system today. Studies have been done which indicate that in some instances, disputed sums should be in the $30K range to make a general trial economically feasible. A case that goes to trial is already halfway a loser. The best bet is to mediate, or try to attempt a settlement. It is a sad state of affairs when going to trial is seen as the most unappealling option, but that is the case right now.

If the original poster came to me, I would definitely advise against attempting legal action. The law firm I work for generally only takes corporations as clients (they have the money to pay, and the potential liabilities which require iron-clad legal protection). I might advise him to go to a mom and pop law firm (ie. those guys who operate a law office out of a Co-Op strip mall) but you would have to be weary of the quality of service you are getting, and whether or not they are just out to make a buck off of you. Honestly, the best advice.....forget the legal action. I don't think its right either, but its the brutal economic reality.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by fotze

Didn't neeper do your car?

His former company did it. His business partner was the installer. In fairness to Neeper he offered me great service. Too bad his partner fataed up my car and now they are out of business so I get to play eat the bill.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Log

However if the problem wasn't a manufacturer's defect, why should Nissan cover something that was installed after the fact.

To tell you the truth, I think Nissan would simply settle for having the car rental cost re-imbursed and try to bury the rest.

I never said they should. I said they can go ahead and refuse to do it if the starter caused the problem. But if the starter didn't cause the problem, as in my case, they can't charge to do it.