1. Russia invades NATO member
2. NATO strikes back at Russia's 5-10 biggest cities with unprecedented bombing using conventional weapons. Think Dresden, but with modern militaries.
3. Russia either capitulates (not likely) or launches nukes on 25+ major cities in the west. Berlin, Paris, London, Washington, NY, Toronto, Warsaw, Kyiv etc.
4. NATO countries retaliate.
5. fin
At this point, any "first strike" from NATO will be nuclear.
At this point, any "first strike" from NATO will be nuclear.
I doubt that actually. I think NATO commanders (and their PMs/Presidents) will at least try to force Russia to submit by attacking military targets first as there is a small chance Russia concedes at that point. Furthermore, most NATO countries (if not all) who have nuclear arsenals have laws governing the use, and can only be used in specific circumstances.
A Russian invasion of, say, Estonia, probably doesn't qualify for authorization of nuclear response.
NATO isn't starting a nuclear war over a ground invasion, nor would they target cities in response. They would directly engage the enemy and launch airstrikes on military targets that are supporting the invasion. Granted, that has a good chance of escalating (potentially to a nuclear war), but that's not going to be the first move.
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Chemical weapons have been used in Mariupol, confirmed first hand by Azov regiment.
This has breached the threshold.
My understanding is that they have used it on a steel plant that became Azov's fortress. There were no civilians inside. Not to mention Azov battalion actually are nazis. Russians did way worse things during this war.
My understanding is that they have used it on a steel plant that became Azov's fortress. There were no civilians inside. Not to mention Azov battalion actually are nazis. Russians did way worse things during this war.
The only fascists in this war are Russians, using chemical weapons during an invasion is disgusting regardless how difficult it was going to be to take an objective.
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In a quiet, rural neighbourhood 70km (45miles) west of Kyiv, we spoke to Anna, who is 50. We have changed her name to protect her identity.
Anna told us that on 7 March she had been at home with her husband when a foreign soldier barged in.
"At gunpoint, he took me to a house nearby. He ordered me: 'Take your clothes off or I'll shoot you.' He kept threatening to kill me if I didn't do as he said. Then he started raping me," she said.
Anna described her attacker as a young, thin, Chechen fighter allied with Russia.
Twitter was running wild over the weekend (then reddit) of a Russian soldier who assaulted a young baby and posted it online. Not searching out that story.
My understanding is that they have used it on a steel plant that became Azov's fortress. There were no civilians inside. Not to mention Azov battalion actually are nazis. Russians did way worse things during this war.
So post them those stories then and stop playing Dr Deflector.
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Can nothing more be done militarily? It seems there are no limits to atrocities that can be committed by the Russians since there are no tangible consequences.
NATO isn't starting a nuclear war over a ground invasion, nor would they target cities in response. They would directly engage the enemy and launch airstrikes on military targets that are supporting the invasion. Granted, that has a good chance of escalating (potentially to a nuclear war), but that's not going to be the first move.
Exactly my point, which is why it is highly unlikely that there will be any direct intervention.
yeah. i dunno. i feel like that just lets russia off the hook.
evil is evil.
No it doesn't. Russia started a war in which it knew, or ought to have known, that this sort of thing was bound to happen... because people are awful. Of course Russia bears responsibility, and Putin personally bears responsibility, for the inevitable, foreseeable outcome of the decision to invade its neighbour for no good reason.
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Holy ####, you still don't get it. That's actually impressive at this point.
I do get it, trust me I do get it. I don't think other's get it. Putin isn't a spineless leader, he does exactly what he wants to do, end of story.
He called Obama's bluff in Syria, he just called Biden's bluff on chemical weapons just now from reports that they have been used.
So I go back to my original thought process and ask, where is this going to go and end? He isn't going to stop. Pay attention to when he talks, he actually means what he says.
He is about up front as possible about other countries bordering Russia joining NATO. Full stop, don't do it or else he says. Sweden and Finland have just now started the process on joining NATO literally by the summer. Do we think he is just going to sit around and wait for the ribbon cutting ceremony?
At what point do the worlds most powerful countries both economically and militarily actually get down to business and take care of it?? How does this not end with the US and other countries getting about as involved as possible?
I get it, he has nukes. If the west *****y foots around here, it's going to be open season from all the other countries that got their own beef. North Korea, Iran, China.
If we believe Putin, and nothing has shown us to not believe him, when this continues and he pushes the boundary even more and likely tests light nuke's, significant chemical weapons against civilians and more, we will probably have to respond and the question will be asked, why not sooner?
Sometimes in life you can either be first, smarter or even dirtier than your opponent. Sometimes it's a hell of a lot easier to just be first and ahead of the game.
I do get it, trust me I do get it. I don't think other's get it. Putin isn't a spineless leader, he does exactly what he wants to do, end of story.
He called Obama's bluff in Syria, he just called Biden's bluff on chemical weapons just now from reports that they have been used.
So I go back to my original thought process and ask, where is this going to go and end? He isn't going to stop. Pay attention to when he talks, he actually means what he says.
He is about up front as possible about other countries bordering Russia joining NATO. Full stop, don't do it or else he says. Sweden and Finland have just now started the process on joining NATO literally by the summer. Do we think he is just going to sit around and wait for the ribbon cutting ceremony?
At what point do the worlds most powerful countries both economically and militarily actually get down to business and take care of it?? How does this not end with the US and other countries getting about as involved as possible?
I get it, he has nukes. If the west *****y foots around here, it's going to be open season from all the other countries that got their own beef. North Korea, Iran, China.
If we believe Putin, and nothing has shown us to not believe him, when this continues and he pushes the boundary even more and likely tests light nuke's, significant chemical weapons against civilians and more, we will probably have to respond and the question will be asked, why not sooner?
Sometimes in life you can either be first, smarter or even dirtier than your opponent. Sometimes it's a hell of a lot easier to just be first and ahead of the game.
You are General Turgidson. It's a terrible policy
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