What’s the matter with Valimaki?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

This thread is hilarious.

It’s the same old story.

People jumping to conclusions prematurely.

I haven’t heard anyone talking about getting rid of Gaudreau or Tkachuk this season and that’s all I ever read last year because of the overall team struggles.

People were saying the Andersson signing was a mistake and now it’s seen as a steal.

Look at this year people are saying Mangiapane should be shipped because he slowed down so much in the 2nd half (and we need to make room for the other contracts).

The list is endless with guys like Kylington and Markstrom also being mentioned at some point.

Another prospect people crap on these days is Zary.

Many around here don’t have patience and expect development to be an upward trajectory always.

It has always been a what have you done for me lately mentality for some around here and it probably will never change.

I like to think most of us realize there are ebbs and flows to a hockey players trajectory throughout the season/his career and it’s just a smaller group that don’t understand it’s a process and sometimes you need to be patient.

Most NHL dmen don’t reach their peak until mid-to-late 20s and we want to get rid of a 23yo 1st rd pick who looked solid before he lost all confidence.

We shouldn’t even be discussing this topic until after training camp next season.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Over Mackey? I don't think Sutter does.

Haha have you discussed this with him?

Everyone keeps saying Sutter doesn’t like Valimaki but where is the proof of this?

He said some things to the media? Well yea he says this crap about all players and the team in the media.

He uses it as a motivational tactic.

There is no denying Juuso needed to bo back to the AHL this year so I just don’t see where you get this idea that Sutter won’t play him if he shows up and proves to be one of our top 6 dmen.

[DJones]

Probably done with Calgary.

Forseeing another Bennett situation as well

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Haha have you discussed this with him?

Everyone keeps saying Sutter doesn’t like Valimaki but where is the proof of this?

He said some things to the media? Well yea he says this crap about all players and the team in the media.

He uses it as a motivational tactic.

There is no denying Juuso needed to bo back to the AHL this year so I just don’t see where you get this idea that Sutter won’t play him if he shows up and proves to be one of our top 6 dmen.

The proof is he has been benched and sent to the minor after Sutter took over

Before that he was a regular and the anointed future…some even said he was the replacement for Gio

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The proof is he has been benched and sent to the minor after Sutter took over

Before that he was a regular and the anointed future…some even said he was the replacement for Gio

Sutter said he was put into the NHL too early.

Just cause he wants him to develop more in the AHL doesn’t mean he won’t give him a chance if he earns it down the road.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Package him up with Monahan and sell them both as a redemption package in the offseason?

It's a shame, he seemed like a sure thing, then that achilles injury just... smashed it somehow.

Ah the old credit default swap player exchange.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by DJones

Probably done with Calgary.

Forseeing another Bennett situation as well

How is this remotely like the Bennett situation? Injuries have derailed his development... they haven't had a chance to mishandle him as a prospect (if that is what you are getting at).

[Macindoc]

Defensemen peak on average at age 29. He lost two years of development to injury. He’s a late bloomer. He will likely stay with the big club next year due to waivers and the team’s need to ice a third pairing at near league minimum salary in order to re-sign all of their big name free agents, unless he ignores the Flames’ off-season recommendations for fitness and shows up out of shape. And they will probably tell him heading into the off-season that he has a place on the team if he does his work, to avoid a situation where he’s stewing over it the entire summer to the point that he requests a trade.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Defensemen peak on average at age 29. He lost two years of development to injury. He’s a late bloomer. He will likely stay with the big club next year due to waivers and the team’s need to ice a third pairing at near league minimum salary in order to re-sign all of their big name free agents, unless he ignores the Flames’ off-season recommendations for fitness and shows up out of shape. And they will probably tell him heading into the off-season that he has a place on the team if he does his work, to avoid a situation where he’s stewing over it the entire summer to the point that he requests a trade.

If you're a late bloomer because of slow development then I think it's possible that you are more likely to remain durable for longer.

But if you're a late bloomer due to major injuries, then I don't think you're more likely to remain durable for longer.

There's a difference between guys like Gio, Coleman, and Ryan, who just took a long time to develop, and guys like Valimaki, Gillies, and Parsons, who had their development delayed/derailed by major injuries.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by VilleN

How is this remotely like the Bennett situation? Injuries have derailed his development... they haven't had a chance to mishandle him as a prospect (if that is what you are getting at).

We put him in the AHL instead the 4th line.

Result is the same, I'd be shocked if his agent doesn't want him out of here and I think he'll do well wherever he goes.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Not even close to a Bennett situation. closer to Anton Stralman.

Seriously though, he could still end up having a 20 year career in Calgary.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Not even close to a Bennett situation. closer to Anton Stralman.



Seriously though, he could still end up having a 20 year career in Calgary.

Greatest Flame ever haha

That's like some serious 600/1300 level optimism

Personally I think he is Monahan/Lucic sweetener and we'll be lucky for it

[looooob]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Greatest Flame ever haha

That's like some serious 600/1300 level optimism

Personally I think he is Monahan/Lucic sweetener and we'll be lucky for it

20 years might be hyperbole, but I think there were alot of folks who didn't see 14 years in the Flaming C and counting from 22 year old Mikael Backlund




I agree Valimaki could easily be gone this summer, or he figures it out and finds a niche. who knows. I'm certainly not betting on the former

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

If you're a late bloomer because of slow development then I think it's possible that you are more likely to remain durable for longer.

But if you're a late bloomer due to major injuries, then I don't think you're more likely to remain durable for longer.

There's a difference between guys like Gio, Coleman, and Ryan, who just took a long time to develop, and guys like Valimaki, Gillies, and Parsons, who had their development delayed/derailed by major injuries.

Depends on the type of injuries, how they were managed, and whether they were recurrent or just coincidental. If they are 100% healed, then the only ingredients missing might be time and experience.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

There's a difference between guys like Gio, Coleman, and Ryan, who just took a long time to develop, and guys like Valimaki, Gillies, and Parsons, who had their development delayed/derailed by major injuries.

Valimaki, Gillies and Parsons? Let's stop a moment and play ‘One of these things is not like the others.’

Suggest you come up with some other skaters to compare Valimaki to, if you want to make it work.

[SanFranFlamesFan]

Just posting this Athletic article (paywall, sorry) from 2017 about what prospect watcher Scott Wheeler sees in Valimaki. I know that was a long time ago, but I think it's a good reminder not to give up on the raw talent without giving him a full chance.

https://theathletic.com/141653/2017/...-a-heavy-shot/

I have often written of Juuso Valimaki as the defender who can do everything.

He’s built for the NHL, he’s supremely athletic, he’s a strong skater for his size, he’s physical, he’s excellent in man-on-man situations defensively without taking a ton of penalties, he creates clean exits as a handler and passer and he’s poised under pressure. All of these traits made him one of the four highest-ranked defencemen on my list ahead of the 2017 draft and are why he was a steal for the Flames when he fell to the 16th overall pick.

But there’s one on-ice attribute in particular that pushed Valimaki over the edge and made him the highest-scoring under-19 defenceman in the WHL last season (19 goals) and its lone point-per-game draft-eligible option: his shot, the threat it poses and the way it opens up the rest of his game to allow him to dictate play offensively.

What makes Valimaki such a dangerous shot presence from the backend is unique. He’s got the heavy slapshot. Every high-end defenceman at the junior level who is primarily a shooter in the offensive zone should have one because it forces defenders to front their goalie and take away lanes in an attempt to force a pass.

[chedder]

I hope we don't give up on Valimaki. It seemed that he was destined for top 4 or even top 2 and Kylington was being talked about as trade bait. Now the tables have turned. Wouldnt it be nice if they both end up top four in Flames silks?

[greentree]

Bring Valimaki back to camp next fall and see where/if he fits then. He showed 3/4 potential early on before the injuries (no games at all in 2019-20 iirc)

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

This situation feels more Baertschi than any of the others brought up to me. They aren't entirely the same, injuries being the main catalyst that likely has Valimaki in this spot, nor am I saying the end result (player progress, or even with the team) will be the same.

Based on nothing to go on but the handful of things we've heard written (so saying this is an uneducated opinion) it feels a little bit like a frustrated to player who doesn't want to still have to prove themselves or earn their place. And if the organization gives up on Valimaki, my guess is it will be because Valimaki doesn't want to put anymore work in to earning a his NHL keep, and therefore wants out - like Baertschi.

Might be off base, but that's what it feels like, and this time with Sutter at the helm I trust the view point on ready / not ready more than I did back with Baertschi. Must be tough though for Valimaki, going through such an impactful injury, to derail progress, and not be where you expected to be yet. Might be easy to point fingers to your surroundings in that type of situation. And understandable.

That said, if his mindset has migrated that way already, it's likely that it won't correct back until a change of scenery is provided. Meaning, it probably won't happen for him unless he gets moved, because he's convinced himself outside factors are the issue.

Again, pure speculation / non fact based post.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Sutter isn't the sort of coach who messes with a player's emotions or plays head games (like say a Mike Keenan or Mike Babcock).

You either play his style (and meet his expectations) or you don't. It's strictly business.