"Take that Calgary Puck!" — SN960 and Calgary sports media discussion

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That is not it at all. Moderators have frequently have to edit and delete posts because of the disgusting things people will say about women—about Cassie, in particular—when anonymously hammering away on their keyboards.

I personally don't think she is a good colour voice at all. But I also don't waste an entire game with vitriolic posts about it on a message board.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

And a good thing that you and the other Mods do so. The vitriol spewed at Cassie - and I am certainly not a fan of her colour commentary - is unbelievable. Twitter? Just avoid it entirely if she's on. Do none of these "men" have mothers, wives or daughters?

Critiquing knowledge or voice or cadence is one thing....but the crap that goes out to her is another whole level. (Fair comment: she doesn't seem to know the difference between a benefactor and a beneficiary, and she has a few comments/phrases that she handily overuses. She can be a bit of a monotone. Unfair comment: almost everything else.)

It's so easy to mute the sound, whether TV or sound. Why not just do that?
Pretty much everyone here knows the players' numbers and what they're doing; turn it up when you actually NEED an explanation (weird call etc) and then re-mute.

[taxbuster]

One thing I'll note on colour commentary from ex-NHLers. Some have FAR better eyes or reactions than others. There are a few who seem exceptional at picking up some small detail..a tiny tick of a stick or toe eg that others miss. Ball and Hrudey (surprise for an ex-goalie!) are both excellent at this - very fast to pick things up. Millen too. And a few others I've watched on other feeds. To me, THAT adds value.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I think this has far less to do with anything than you may be attempting to manufacture.

Right. That’s why they mention it so much during broadcasts.

I’m sure if Bill Scott or Keith Gretzky’s wife was doing colour commentary for Oilers broadcasts on HNIC you would say the same thing.

[AC]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

One thing I'll note on colour commentary from ex-NHLers. Some have FAR better eyes or reactions than others. There are a few who seem exceptional at picking up some small detail..a tiny tick of a stick or toe eg that others miss. Ball and Hrudey (surprise for an ex-goalie!) are both excellent at this - very fast to pick things up. Millen too. And a few others I've watched on other feeds. To me, THAT adds value.

Ball is pretty incredible at discerning what happened live on a goal call for example.

It's really impressive how often he accurately calls a subtle deflection for a goal, while the other broadcast goes "Oh you know what? That might have been deflected" while watching a 3rd slow-mo replay after spending the last minute talking about the wrong person scoring, or the goalie not making an easy save.

Same with confusing whistles. When he's calling a game in the building he's usually spot on. A lot of others have an awkward exchange with the other PBP crew asking if they know what happened. I'd say it's one aspect Singh struggles with, but I'm sure a lot of it comes down to experience.

We're really spoiled. Hrudey's best asset is that he has great chemistry and a genuine friendship with Ball.

[McG]

I watch a lot of different sports and I’m definitely a fan of the rugby and soccer commentators. I’m even going to throw in knowledgeable UFC and boxing commentators.

Part of the job is to explain why these athletes are the best and the subtle things that are the difference between wins and losses, and to keep fans coming back with a greater understanding of the game and players.

Howie Meeker was exceptional during his intermission segments because they totally explained the next level of the game.

If you listen to the way that English premier league commentators and analysts present, it’s quite different from the nhl. There is no fanboyism. No promoting one team over another. It’s about the sport and the on field product. Why can’t the nhl get this?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Right. That’s why they mention it so much during broadcasts.

I’m sure if Bill Scott or Keith Gretzky’s wife was doing colour commentary for Oilers broadcasts on HNIC you would say the same thing.

I probably wouldn't say anything because they're professionals and are capable of doing their work nonpartisan.

I also rarely watch the Oilers so would lack the necessary motivation or energy to care enough to complain.

[powderjunkie]

I also think it's worth looking across the board at other NHL colour commentators - all of these IMO of course:

Harry Neale - hard to actually say if he was any good or not at this point, but hard to argue against nostalgia and such an iconic voice

Ray Ferraro - good, mostly because he is so confident and commanding. Not sure his 'analysis' is anything special.

Craig Simpson - just generally inoffensive and doesn't do anything wrong/annoying...but nothing stands out as particularly 'good'

Keith Jones/Olcyzk/Boucher/Pang - generally inoffensive with good camaraderie. No particularly insightful analysis. It's also possible we'd find things to hate if we heard them more often.

Bill Clement - not sure he was ever particularly good, but gets points for nostalgia and being in video games

Hrudey - I'm not as down on him as others, for me he's just kinda background inoffensive + camaraderie (w/ Ball only)

Debrusk - barf

Millen - barf

Garrett - occasionally entertaining clownish barf

Pierre McGuire - cringey barf

Campbell - barf

Healy - barf; better as a hot-take guy (which is still barfy)


That is a total of 15. I count 6 dislikes, 8 okay(ish), and 1 N/A.

At a glance, I'd say the US broadcast has better commentators, but I suspect that has more to do with watching them less frequently and rarely having a strong rooting interest (for or against) in the games they call.

I think people compare CC's against an idealized standard that simply doesn't exist in hockey. The flow of hockey is a lot closer to soccer than the other big 3 NA sports...perhaps there is a reason soccer tends to have a lot of 1 man booths?

[Yamer]

I've always liked Gary Galley on colour, and of course Chris Cuthbert is an A+ level play-by-play caller.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by McG

If you listen to the way that English premier league commentators and analysts present, it’s quite different from the nhl. There is no fanboyism. No promoting one team over another. It’s about the sport and the on field product. Why can’t the nhl get this?

Because they have to spoon-feed dumbass (mostly) American audiences?

It's all about "dead air" which was a killer on radio...should never happen as any good radio person will tell you. But TV is different, though the announcers have never seemed to adjust to that (or maybe it's the execs that decide that's what the audience "needs"?). You have the visual...now add something to that visual that is not obvious!

There is little need for blather in a visual medium.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I probably wouldn't say anything because they're professionals and are capable of doing their work nonpartisan.

I also rarely watch the Oilers so would lack the necessary motivation or energy to care enough to complain.

It’s a blatant professional conflict of interest & mutually exclusive to being non-partisan until the conflict is resolved.

She should be persona no grata on Flames broadcasts & assigned to cover other games until the conflict no longer exists.

Good to know you don’t watch many battles of Alberta. #DieHardFan

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Boreal

It’s a blatant professional conflict of interest & mutually exclusive to being non-partisan until the conflict is resolved.

She should be persona no grata on Flames broadcasts & assigned to cover other games until the conflict no longer exists.

Good to know you don’t watch many battles of Alberta. #DieHardFan

Rarely does not equal never. Weird dig.

This isn't a scandal of corporate level nepotism. I seriously don't see the big deal and feel it's a silly argument at its roots. She's partisan and then goes out of her way to be non-partisan. Which part of the equation is bothersome?

Maybe I'm just not that invested in a commentary team when there's actual hockey to watch. #DieHardFan

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Rarely does not equal never. Weird dig.

This isn't a scandal of corporate level nepotism. I seriously don't see the big deal and feel it's a silly argument at its roots. She's partisan and then goes out of her way to be non-partisan. Which part of the equation is bothersome?

Maybe I'm just not that invested in a commentary team when there's actual hockey to watch. #DieHardFan

It is another item in the long list of reasons why Sportsnet’s broadcasts are a joke and people enable them to remain a joke.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The outrage for each of them is actually proportional to their terrible takes.

Cassie is just kinda bland/boring - the outrage is not proportional to that. She gets things wrong on first viewing live or first replay viewing - as do nearly every other colour commentator (often something looks one way through the first 2-3 replay angles until another view paints a different/definitive story) . I don't think she is very good at talking through those scenarios or clarifying the final result.

There are plenty of valid criticisms to make, but being just kinda 'below average' does not warrant the vitriol she gets. As has been said a thousand times, she is just better suited to intermission analysis.

Originally Posted by taxbuster

And a good thing that you and the other Mods do so. The vitriol spewed at Cassie - and I am certainly not a fan of her colour commentary - is unbelievable. Twitter? Just avoid it entirely if she's on. Do none of these "men" have mothers, wives or daughters?

Critiquing knowledge or voice or cadence is one thing....but the crap that goes out to her is another whole level. (Fair comment: she doesn't seem to know the difference between a benefactor and a beneficiary, and she has a few comments/phrases that she handily overuses. She can be a bit of a monotone. Unfair comment: almost everything else.)

It's so easy to mute the sound, whether TV or sound. Why not just do that?
Pretty much everyone here knows the players' numbers and what they're doing; turn it up when you actually NEED an explanation (weird call etc) and then re-mute.

Oh, I get it now.

My criticisms are legit and fair. Your criticisms are misogynistic and purely gender based.

I’m sure Cassie is subjected to a lot of sexist and misogynistic comments on twitter. But those idiots and troglodytes in no way take away from the legit criticisms she gets. Anyone who pretends that the amount of criticism is disproportionate to her awfulness has a short memory and is ignoring the hate Hughson, Kerr, Loubo and others got.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Oh, I get it now.

My criticisms are legit and fair. Your criticisms are misogynistic and purely gender based.

I’m sure Cassie is subjected to a lot of sexist and misogynistic comments on twitter. But those idiots and troglodytes in no way take away from the legit criticisms she gets. Anyone who pretends that the amount of criticism is disproportionate to her awfulness has a short memory and is ignoring the hate Hughson, Kerr, Loubo and others got.

The difference is one of "tone".

Comment that is made without prejudice, without malice and without vitriolic bashing of personality or gender is fine.

Sadly, that is often not what one reads - on Twitter or here.

Comment all you like about her "if you will"...or "that's a penalty every time" etc.....that is ALL fair comment. Even her voice and lack at times of inflection.

But when someone veers into other territory....that easily degenerates to off-base comments.

In no way did I suggest that "my" comments are fine and "your" comments aren't (I may never have even read them....). But the reality is that there ARE and HAVE BEEN derogatory and misogynistic comments made about her.

I've got comments aplenty about DeBrusk, Loubo, Wills too...but they're all based on how they do what they do. Not who they are.

[mhsyyc]

Not listening to Boomer in the morning this last week and having to listen to CBS Sports Radio makes me realize how bad in general sports radio is and that maybe, just maybe, our local team isn't as bad as we sometimes think

[sleepingmoose]

The concern over Cassie being married to the Flames AGM is just unfounded - maybe if she only got the job for that reason, but she played the game at the highest level and won Olympic gold. It’s not like you can question her credentials.

There’s many broadcast teams (like I assume Wills/Loubo) that are literally paid by the team they’re covering - is she supposed to be more biased because she’s married to someone who’s paid by the team? It just doesn’t make sense.

I don’t particularly enjoy her colour commentary, but implying that she can’t work Flames games because of her husbands job is a stretch IMHO.

[Jay Random]

It seems to me the two biggest complaints about Ms.Campbell-Pascall have nothing to do with gender:

1. She talks over the play, even when she has little or nothing to say. I agree with this complaint. Frankly, her colour work reminds me of Jim Peplinski back in the 90s. He always had to finish whatever he was saying and button up his sentence at the end, even if there was a big play going on at the time. (‘That's nice, Pepper,’ said the play-by-play man, ‘but while you were saying that, one of the players was decapitated and the Flames scored two goals on the power play.’ —I exaggerate the facts, but not the feeling.) Frankly, the best thing about his attempted comeback in '95 is that it got him out of the broadcast booth.

2. She keeps dragging McDavid in by the heels, talking about him even when the Oilers' biggest rival is playing and he is not. I think this is what makes Flames fans particularly angry about her; it would rankle less if she were working on any other team's broadcasts. I believe all Sportsnet on-air people are required to do this, but Ms. Campbell-Pascall seems particularly bad at picking her spots. It's almost as if she's on a clock, thinking to herself, ‘This play is all about the goalie and the defence, but I am contractually obligated to mention #97 in the next ten seconds, so wotthehell, I'll just go off topic.’

There is one thing I'll say against her that is gender-related in a kind of backhand way. On the rare occasions when she allows herself to become excited on the air, the pitch of her voice naturally rises. I believe this is what causes some people to refer to her as ‘shrill’. It appears to me that she works too hard not to do that, to keep her pitch low and even, with the result that she can sound emotionally uninvolved or even bored. If it were any of my business, I would advise her to let her voice modulate more naturally with the emotional flow of the game, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like her vocal range.

[browna]

Announcers (color commentators, panels it's and some pbp guys) on Sportsnet clearly have been told to tell a story. That's why Cassie drones on about something; its in the notes she's prepared and has to get in...at the expense of the play by play if necessary. Singh does it too. Part of it could be covering up for inexperience behind the mic or with the game, but it's annoying.

A guy like Millen, Galley and Craig Simpson are great. They get they game, played the NHL game, and can also communicate that knowledge and nuance (something Simmer lacked). Debrusk was like that when he was the late night HNIC game for one season, and then when they cut loose Remenda, and he because full time Oilers regional, he reverted back to the circus sideshow pom pom waver...amplified more now with Monster Truck Michaels.

Hrudey seems to want to play the impartial mediator, giving a lot of credit to the other team and players. It's as if he's worries that when he flies to Toronto every Friday he will get razzed for being a Flames homer. His dislike of Sutter is become more obvious too.

Ball is just great. We are lucky to have him, he gets along with any color guy; when Millen did the trio with the Flames they were great. We got very fortunate to have him after the disaster that was Rob Kerr.

[Jiri Hrdina]

^I agree re. Ball. I view him amongst the very best. Elite. I don't think that's being over complimentary. He's that damn good.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^I agree re. Ball. I view him amongst the very best. Elite. I don't think that's being over complimentary. He's that damn good.

Agreed