"Take that Calgary Puck!" — SN960 and Calgary sports media discussion

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Julio

Jenna Holbrook was on the Fan for a couple years, but that was over 15 years ago.

Memories of the “9 am Phone Zone”

[Jables16]

I listened to the whole thing, pretty fun/standard Boomer & Pinder banter but with Pinder working a bit blue since it's not the radio which was fun.

They said explicitly it's not a suspension, realignment, restructuring, cancellation or anything like that. It's a COVID thing, neither of them have it, sounds like more of a station thing. People were asking why they couldn't just do a show from home like during the start of the pandemic and they seemed to have the same question, and were kind of exasperated about the whole thing. Sounds like some bureaucratic red-tape COVID protocols, nothing sinister. Believe Boom mentioned at the end they're going to do another stream tonight starting about 5 mins left in the Flames game.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Apart from the amplified hate for Jim Hughson or the disdain for Gene Principe (that one's justified), the rhetoric around Cassie Campbell is the most toxic re: commentary team on this board. That's my opinion, anyway, and I strongly believe gender is a factor. Although I do believe you're correct in your second sentence.

Of course any random GT shouldn't be taken as the pulse of this board as it's typically the lowest quality segment of CP in general.

And what about Jack Michaels, Ron Maclean, Don cherry, Darren dredger? Those all justified or gender based?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And what about Jack Michaels, Ron Maclean, Don cherry, Darren dredger? Those all justified or gender based?

If hyperbolic clown is a gender than I guess.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Apart from the amplified hate for Jim Hughson or the disdain for Gene Principe (that one's justified), the rhetoric around Cassie Campbell is the most toxic re: commentary team on this board. That's my opinion, anyway, and I strongly believe gender is a factor. Although I do believe you're correct in your second sentence.

Of course any random GT shouldn't be taken as the pulse of this board as it's typically the lowest quality segment of CP in general.

IMO it's most definitely a gender/toxic masculinity thing. It's because every game these people feel the need to pull out their phones to say the exact same thing.

Look, I do not like Elliotte Friedman at all. The dude literally called the wrong gold medallist during a race, twice! But I don't feel the need to post about it every time I hear him.

[memphusk]

How is it toxic masculinity if she's ####ty at her job? This is just getting out of control.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by memphusk

How is it toxic masculinity if she's ####ty at her job? This is just getting out of control.

Oh, it's quite simple. You're allowed to criticize a man if he's bad at a job, but it's sexist to criticize a woman for any reason. Even other women are not allowed to do so, apparently, because that's breaking solidarity and betraying the sisterhood.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And what about Jack Michaels, Ron Maclean, Don cherry, Darren dredger? Those all justified or gender based?

What about them? Ron MacLean is a harmless sycophant, Don Cherry is an unapologetic bigot, and Michaels and Dredger are hardly talked about because they have no relevance, especially to this discussion. I don't see these examples as undermining my original point.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh, it's quite simple. You're allowed to criticize a man if he's bad at a job, but it's sexist to criticize a woman for any reason. Even other women are not allowed to do so, apparently, because that's breaking solidarity and betraying the sisterhood.

This is a ridiculous take, but I'll address it anyway.

It's not that you can't be critical of a person, it's the volume and quality of rhetoric. I've seen far more posters with a burr up their ass vomiting aggressive criticism of Campbell to the point of obsession. Hrudey and Campbell are about equal - all things considered - as far as colour commentators. What Cassie lacks in charm compared to Kelly she makes up for in pure analysis. Even so, who are fans more viscous towards?

Sports journalists and personalities, regardless of gender, routinely recognize and admonish the disparity between how women and men are treated within the industry. This doesn't really seem to be debated by people who actually do the job for a living.

In most cases I would suspect it's just people being frustrated with quality as a subjective standard, but the sheer relentlessness energy to constantly post how awful she is has at least, in part, a gender component to it. I'm convinced of it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Yamer

What about them? Ron MacLean is a harmless sycophant, Don Cherry is an unapologetic bigot, and Michaels and Dredger are hardly talked about because they have no relevance, especially to this discussion. I don't see these examples as undermining my original point.

In other words, you confirm the opposing point. Criticism of males is obviously fair game, but criticism of females is something you need to attack.

This is a ridiculous take, but I'll address it anyway.

It's not that you can't be critical of a person, it's the volume and quality of rhetoric.

In the industry I've spent most of my career in, ALL criticism of any woman is dismissed as sexism, and ALL criticism of any POC is dismissed as racism. The same thing occurs in large swathes of academe, and in other places. The rhetoric, of course, is identical to what I see here when posters attack people for not liking a particular commentator.

So… what ‘volume and quality of rhetoric’ do YOU consider permissible when criticizing a woman, and who appointed you to judge that?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

In other words, you confirm the opposing point. Criticism of males is obviously fair game, but criticism of females is something you need to attack.

How do you believe I did that, specifically considering that 3/4 aren't part of a gameplay commentary team? Apart from Michaels, who you only likely hear about through viral videos, do these men compare to what we're talking about?

In the industry I've spent most of my career in, ALL criticism of any woman is dismissed as sexism, and ALL criticism of any POC is dismissed as racism. The same thing occurs in large swathes of academe, and in other places. The rhetoric, of course, is identical to what I see here when posters attack people for not liking a particular commentator.

So… what ‘volume and quality of rhetoric’ do YOU consider permissible when criticizing a woman, and who appointed you to judge that?

It's too bad that your unspecified industry is that confused, but I don't know how it compares to how Cassie Campbell is disproportionately criticized for her performance on sports television.

This is all subjective, including my own assessment of how anyone is treated under any nuanced or contextualized conditions. In this instance I've observed a female broadcaster treated differently than her male counterparts within similar circumstances.

I'm not an authority on this and I've never claimed to be one. And I'm not a judge appointed to rule on anything, and I've again never claimed to be one. This is a strange inquisition, considering I'm neither preaching nor creating any kind of standard.

When two things are the same but elicit a distinctive response you generally examine the variables. In this case, it appears to be a penis.

[Northendzone]

Kudos To Sandra prusina. I what I have heard I have liked and think she has done a great job. Here is hoping that the fan makes more room for her

[Harry Lime]

I watched Eddie Olczyk on TNT last night, and he pretty much babbled stories in an interesting way for the entire broadcast. It was like watching a baseball game. I think that this is what turns people off of Cassie, is that she just doesn't have a natural cadence. She works really well as a panelist or interviewer, because the cadence is not necessary. (This is content aside, as that is a matter of taste whether her takes bother anyone)

Someone like Jamie McClennon would be a good color guy. Cory Sarich probably wouldn't be. Just that natural rhythm. When you watch a lot of hockey, eventually you make strong opinions as a viewer. Don Cherry received way more hate, and an argument could be made that it was ageist.

Or maybe it's all about dicks. I don't know.

Also, really liked Sandra and hope she gets a bigger role on the Fan.

[Timbo]

So are Boomer and Pinder on some kind of work protest? It’s been a while now and admitting Covid is not taboo anymore. So what’s happening? Or did I miss something?

Oops saw Jables16 post… so please disregard.

[Weitz]

Sandra is great. Very articulate. But too much of a fan of the local team to be a regular I think.

For example: You can dislike Vegas as a regional opponent but she sounded too much like a fan. Complained about how they handle their team when that’s how every other league in North America does things. “I hate how they treated Fleury who gave everything for them” Etc.

As much hate as more balanced people get you can actually have shows with them. You can’t have fans it’s just not good radio.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Jables16

I listened to the whole thing, pretty fun/standard Boomer & Pinder banter but with Pinder working a bit blue since it's not the radio which was fun.

They said explicitly it's not a suspension, realignment, restructuring, cancellation or anything like that. It's a COVID thing, neither of them have it, sounds like more of a station thing. People were asking why they couldn't just do a show from home like during the start of the pandemic and they seemed to have the same question, and were kind of exasperated about the whole thing. Sounds like some bureaucratic red-tape COVID protocols, nothing sinister. Believe Boom mentioned at the end they're going to do another stream tonight starting about 5 mins left in the Flames game.

If its not boomer, and its not pinder....and they can't go into the station....

<psst....its the producer that has the 'Vid>

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sandra is great. Very articulate. But too much of a fan of the local team to be a regular I think.

For example: You can dislike Vegas as a regional opponent but she sounded too much like a fan. Complained about how they handle their team when that’s how every other league in North America does things. “I hate how they treated Fleury who gave everything for them” Etc.

As much hate as more balanced people get you can actually have shows with them. You can’t have fans it’s just not good radio.

HA, tell the media in your team's rank-ass city that.

Gold coming from a Greaser.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

HA, tell the media in your team's rank-ass city that.

Gold coming from a Greaser.

You listen to Edmonton radio? I don’t.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You listen to Edmonton radio? I don’t.

Uhh I take it you dont listen, watch or read anything from up there?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sandra is great. Very articulate. But too much of a fan of the local team to be a regular I think.

For example: You can dislike Vegas as a regional opponent but she sounded too much like a fan. Complained about how they handle their team when that’s how every other league in North America does things. “I hate how they treated Fleury who gave everything for them” Etc.

As much hate as more balanced people get you can actually have shows with them. You can’t have fans it’s just not good radio.

Her comments about Vegas and Fleury don’t even have anything to do with the Flames
Just an awful take by you where you are assuming what’s behind her opinion.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Weitz

You listen to Edmonton radio? I don’t.

Radio thru television, I don't think they employ a single "non-fan" who can actually weigh in on a game or the team objectively.

Saying fans as media members doesn't work when your broadcasts are grown men circle-jerking over McDavid on live TV is rather precious.