[News] Monahan on LTIR with season ending surgery. Kylington day to day. Mackey called up

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Lucic did the team a big favor in the expansion draft. He stays if he wants.

Monahan is not tradable unless there is an idiot that wants to gamble. The NHL is full of idiots.

Think it all depends on how the surgery goes.

If it goes well and doctors see a full recovery, he's an even more likely bounce back guy with both hips done.

Another GM probably looks at a Monahan buy out, and gets Calgary to cover the same amount but for one year, and both teams are happy.

That lands Monahan in the 3.75M range on an expiring contract. Puts up 45 points for team X and is dealt at the deadline for a 3rd round pick.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Think it all depends on how the surgery goes.

If it goes well and doctors see a full recovery, he's an even more likely bounce back guy with both hips done.

Another GM probably looks at a Monahan buy out, and gets Calgary to cover the same amount but for one year, and both teams are happy.

That lands Monahan in the 3.75M range on an expiring contract. Puts up 45 points for team X and is dealt at the deadline for a 3rd round pick.

I doubt any team gambles based on what doctors say per se.

They will want to see him play.

In any event, the premise was that Monny could be moved without retention for a 7th round pick. Calgary retaining half his contract? A different matter.

[Strange Brew]

Agreed, no one will know how the surgery went until we are well into next season. Sure, we will see the obligatory "surgery was successful" press release in a few days, but the only proof comes on the ice.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Think it all depends on how the surgery goes.

If it goes well and doctors see a full recovery, he's an even more likely bounce back guy with both hips done.

Another GM probably looks at a Monahan buy out, and gets Calgary to cover the same amount but for one year, and both teams are happy.

That lands Monahan in the 3.75M range on an expiring contract. Puts up 45 points for team X and is dealt at the deadline for a 3rd round pick.

Yeah, Monahan will get 2-3 chances before it’s over
It’s just the matter of price

[powderjunkie]

Maybe it's in here somewhere amongst the Zary discussion, but do we have a timeline on Monahan's recovery?

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s likely a waste of over $6M worth of cap space and getting nothing for it.

There is simply a better use of that space for a team with that space. Like charging a fee to the team who desperately needs that space.

I can see a team taking on Monny. But there will be a significant cost. Unless, of course, he proves himself healthy and productive.

Except there isn't actually an infinite supply of opportunities to use that cap space (unless you want to blow your brains out on bad UFA deals).

You want to know what else there isn't an infinite supply of? Centres.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Maybe it's in here somewhere amongst the Zary discussion, but do we have a timeline on Monahan's recovery?

Only that he would be ready by training camp. Whatever ready means.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Except there isn't actually an infinite supply of opportunities to use that cap space (unless you want to blow your brains out on bad UFA deals).

I doubt Arizona, Seattle, etc would have much trouble finding teams willing to give up a 2nd to unload a $6 mil contract.

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You want to know what else there isn't an infinite supply of? Centres.

There’s a large supply of NHL centres earning under $3 mil and not coming off surgery who can provide what Monahan has brought to the table the last two seasons.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I doubt Arizona, Seattle, etc would have much trouble finding teams willing to give up a 2nd to unload a $6 mil contract.



There’s a large supply of NHL centres earning under $3 mil and not coming off surgery who can provide what Monahan has brought to the table the last two seasons.

This is where it is risk vs reward for those clubs.

How many of these centers and salary dumps have the ability to bounceback and be worth a 2nd/3rd at the TDL?

The Flames would certainly need to include something and/or take back another bad contract (Think a 6th D making 3 million a year for the next 2 years as an example) but there is a higher upside in Monny then most.

Whats % that upside is will be the question a GM asks themself. Is it 1% or 20%

TBH I don't think Monahan plays the first half of the season next year, will start on LTIR, and the Flames will see how it plays out from there. And everyone can complain we are gaming the LTIR and Cap system

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I doubt Arizona, Seattle, etc would have much trouble finding teams willing to give up a 2nd to unload a $6 mil contract.

I suppose his NTC could be a hindrance but in his position he may want to go to a team where he can play a lot in the last year of his contract in hopes of setting himself up for his next contract.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

This is where it is risk vs reward for those clubs.

How many of these centers and salary dumps have the ability to bounceback and be worth a 2nd/3rd at the TDL?

The Flames would certainly need to include something and/or take back another bad contract (Think a 6th D making 3 million a year for the next 2 years as an example) but there is a higher upside in Monny then most.

Whats % that upside is will be the question a GM asks themself. Is it 1% or 20%

TBH I don't think Monahan plays the first half of the season next year, will start on LTIR, and the Flames will see how it plays out from there. And everyone can complain we are gaming the LTIR and Cap system

Many have said for a few years that Monny was an excellent bounce back candidate.

I think we've seen what the cumulative injuries have done to his game.

It's unlikely anyone will see Monny as a solution to any top 6 problems they may be having. Especially when it seems Calgary seemed to have solved a stagnating top 6 by simply removing Monny from it.

Monny is an extreme injury risk and probably will never perform anywhere close to his previous levels. But time will tell on that.

But I expect that the number of GM's willing to roll the dice on that $6M+ question is nil.

I think that the Flames are suggesting that Monny should be good to go by training camp. Time will tell on that one also. I'm not convinced he was ready to go this year, yet there he was playing. Hopefully the Flames wait until he is entirely heathy this year before sending him out.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Agreed, no one will know how the surgery went until we are well into next season. Sure, we will see the obligatory "surgery was successful" press release in a few days, but the only proof comes on the ice.

There's a book on surgery types, and medical files from the surgeon. Those aren't ignored.

I'm not saying anyone gambles on Monahan with certainty and offers up a 1st round pick.

But if surgery type X has a 90% return to normal function record, and the surgeon in question says it went very well, and the Flames are basically giving him away for free and retaining half his salary it's not a huge leap to suggest someone would take a chance.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I doubt Arizona, Seattle, etc would have much trouble finding teams willing to give up a 2nd to unload a $6 mil contract.



There’s a large supply of NHL centres earning under $3 mil and not coming off surgery who can provide what Monahan has brought to the table the last two seasons.

I think you're missing the point.

Nobody wants 4th line center Monahan who chips in 7 five on five points.

But if what we've seen from him was because of two degenerating hips and he bounces back to some extent ... that's the carrot.

Monahan with 15 goals and 40 points (five on five and powerplay) is certainly worth a 50% retained contract gamble.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you're missing the point.

Nobody wants 4th line center Monahan who chips in 7 five on five points.

But if what we've seen from him was because of two degenerating hips and he bounces back to some extent ... that's the carrot.

Monahan with 15 goals and 40 points (five on five and powerplay) is certainly worth a 50% retained contract gamble.

But if Monny requires premium ice time with PP time to get 15 goals and 40 points, that ‘s a non-playoff team.

But retaining 50% of his contract is better than nothing for the Flames and would be possible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s likely a waste of over $6M worth of cap space and getting nothing for it.

There is simply a better use of that space for a team with that space. Like charging a fee to the team who desperately needs that space.

I can see a team taking on Monny. But there will be a significant cost. Unless, of course, he proves himself healthy and productive.

It’s a one year risk. And not necessarily at $6M. GMs avoid long term commitments of risk, but they are quite often OK with a one year rental risk.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But if Monny requires premium ice time with PP time to get 15 goals and 40 points, that ‘s a non-playoff team.

But retaining 50% of his contract is better than nothing for the Flames and would be possible.

I would assume non playoff team for sure.

They have the double value of having someone bounce back on their roster, but also moving the same asset at the trade deadline considerably more than they paid for said asset.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Maybe it's in here somewhere amongst the Zary discussion, but do we have a timeline on Monahan's recovery?



Except there isn't actually an infinite supply of opportunities to use that cap space (unless you want to blow your brains out on bad UFA deals).

You want to know what else there isn't an infinite supply of? Centres.

Steinburg stated yesterday while on air with Mango that Monahan is looking at 4-5 months.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I doubt Arizona, Seattle, etc would have much trouble finding teams willing to give up a 2nd to unload a $6 mil contract.


There’s a large supply of NHL centres earning under $3 mil and not coming off surgery who can provide what Monahan has brought to the table the last two seasons.

Most of the garbage contracts (Ladd/Eriksson/etc.) have already migrated to bottom-feeders. Remaining candidates:

1yr remaining:
JVR ($1M SB, $4M salary, 7M AAV)
Hornqvist (5.3M even)
Zucker ($5.2M vs. 5.5M AAV)
Monahan
Lucic

2 yrs remaining:
Matt Murray (backloaded)
Tyler Johnson ($$<AAV)

We've seen lots of 'overpaid' players move for positive value (Schmidt twice, Stastny, Dadonov*, Leddy, Stepan, etc.). I think JVR/Hornqvist will join this list - overpaid for what they do, but they bring scarce qualities with a fair degree of reliability, and would very likely generate a return at TDL.

Zucker and Monahan are in a similar boat as oft-injured reclamation projects...Monahan seems far more reliable to actually play; Zucker's numbers are a bit better, but he's also 3 years older.

IMO it's more of a sellers' market [at least in terms of bad AAV guys].



The problem with your second paragraph is those players have to agree to sign with you (or you're paying assets to acquire them). Would I rather try Chris Tierney at 1x$2M? Sure...but what if it takes 3x$3M...then I'm not so sure.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt any team gambles based on what doctors say per se.

They will want to see him play.

In any event, the premise was that Monny could be moved without retention for a 7th round pick. Calgary retaining half his contract? A different matter.

Who said 7th rnd pick? I suggested Zary packaged with him who is a 1st rnd pick.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Who said 7th rnd pick?

He was a point per game player as recently as a few years ago. At just 28 years old and just 1 year left on his deal, I absolutely could see a non-cap team bring him in to play him back up to a decent level, then deal him at the trade deadline for a good asset.

Packaging Zary together with Monahan is a terrible idea, unless you're getting a really good asset in return.

[Kipper_3434]

Mony+Zary+Kyllington + Valimaki = Chychrun?

I could see a deal like that working out for both teams. Calgary gets cap space and a young D with top pairing potential. Arizona gets a young top 4 D, and the 3 former 1sts they were asking for. I see it as cap dump+ top 4D, +top 6 D + B forward prospect for top pairing Dman.