Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[Kickazzflames]

Not a fan of Trudeau, but I can appreciate his attempt here to follow through on a campaign promise that is extremely important to me.

Help with housing sounds good on paper, but you can already spot loop holes where this will effectively change nothing. Foreign buyers will use other methods of purchasing through a student or someone who is considered a permanent resident. The tax free account just gives people extra money to put into their new home, if anything it will raise the cost of homes. The money to help with municipalities to update their zoning and permit system has never been the problem, the problem is the red tape in place to restrict the amount of housing being built to keep housing prices high. I have a hard time believing this money will be utilized in a meaningful way.

However, money on affordable housing units for low income families is definitely needed.

I think there still needs to be more aggressive measures taken to give Canadians a cooling period here.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'd also pay more taxes for all people to have, say, dental coverage as part of our provincial healthcare.

Nobody is getting any extra government services out of the tax increases being discussed though. As inflation has been rising the government debt is going to get more expensive. If rates go up by 4% that would require corporate taxes to double just to pay the interest on the existing federal debt. (1.2 trillion federal debt, ~50 billion federal corporate taxes) That doesn't include any new program spending (eg dental promises) nor does it include any of the bailouts that would be likely to go to people/companies that have overleveraged themselves.

Right now inflation is basically a tax on the purchasing power of people on fixed income, but I think it's very likely at least some of that will shift to actual taxes. Higher taxes for higher services is a different discussion, imo.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

You might be a Saint actually.

I doubt 0.01% of the population thinks like you do.

I can guarantee that's not the case. I'll be the first one to hang my middle finger out the window at you if you're driving 1km/h below the speed limit and I am the guy who whistles at dogs in people's cars when stopped at a red light to try to get the dog to freak out. Still an ####### over here.

We have been conditioned to think like capitalists, but you look at countries with more of a socialist bent with better social safety nets (Nordic countries?) and it seems higher taxes can equate to better lives for more people when the tax revenue is invested back into elevating/protecting people. Surely that line of thinking is shared by many of us and I sure hope more than 0.01% of us.

Like, at what point does a guy have enough? I feel guilty about owning a business sometimes. I'll talk to other business owners or wealthy people and they're always bitching about taxes and the new generation being lazy and on and on. Then I'm like, you have three houses, vacation in Hawaii annually, drive the best cars, do the coolest stuff and you're whining about your $20/hour employees not doing enough for you? Like, WTF. How does a guy think like that?

What we need here is more socialism. Higher tax rates at the high levels. I hate watching the spread between the haves and the have-nots widen. And I look at my kids and the leg up they'll have (paid-for university, down payments on houses, no debt) and it just seem so unbe-fataing-lievably unfair to their peers.

I actively vote against my own self interests in favour of parties who will do more for the greater good. You cut corporate taxes for a guy like me and I don't even fataing notice. Why give me that? Take it from me (I won't notice) and give it to 10 people for whom it will put literal food on their table or pay for their kids' dental work.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Nobody is getting any extra government services out of the tax increases being discussed though. As inflation has been rising the government debt is going to get more expensive. If rates go up by 4% that would require corporate taxes to double just to pay the interest on the existing federal debt. (1.2 trillion federal debt, ~50 billion federal corporate taxes) That doesn't include any new program spending (eg dental promises) nor does it include any of the bailouts that would be likely to go to people/companies that have overleveraged themselves.

Right now inflation is basically a tax on the purchasing power of people on fixed income, but I think it's very likely at least some of that will shift to actual taxes. Higher taxes for higher services is a different discussion, imo.

Why do we have government debt in the first place, though? In large part because we don't tax enough. And by "we" I mean Alberta, Canada, USA...probably most of the western countries. Tax the rich. There shouldn't be billionaires. There shouldn't be individuals with 100 million. Fata all that. You can't get rich without exploiting other humans.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Why do we have government debt in the first place, though?

Because politicians of every type mostly care about being re-elected, and the easiest way to do that is to spend more on people than you tax from them.

And just like people buying stuff on credit, if you spend more than you take in you'll build up more debt every year.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Because politicians of every type mostly care about being re-elected, and the easiest way to do that is to spend more on people than you tax from them.

And just like people buying stuff on credit, if you spend more than you take in you'll build up more debt every year.

Sorry, that was a rhetorical question. I do know the answer.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Why do we have government debt in the first place, though? In large part because we don't tax enough. And by "we" I mean Alberta, Canada, USA...probably most of the western countries. Tax the rich. There shouldn't be billionaires. There shouldn't be individuals with 100 million. Fata all that. You can't get rich without exploiting other humans.

Such an elementary perspective. People love stuff like Amazon for the time and money it saves them, it’s helped literally millions.

Until people find out Steve Bezos is worth $182 Billion and then that’s a problem.

You want to use entrepreneurship but then want to hobble the business person that took the chance (almost bankrupt multiple times)

It doesn’t work like that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I can guarantee that's not the case. I'll be the first one to hang my middle finger out the window at you if you're driving 1km/h below the speed limit and I am the guy who whistles at dogs in people's cars when stopped at a red light to try to get the dog to freak out. Still an ####### over here.

We have been conditioned to think like capitalists, but you look at countries with more of a socialist bent with better social safety nets (Nordic countries?) and it seems higher taxes can equate to better lives for more people when the tax revenue is invested back into elevating/protecting people. Surely that line of thinking is shared by many of us and I sure hope more than 0.01% of us.

Like, at what point does a guy have enough? I feel guilty about owning a business sometimes. I'll talk to other business owners or wealthy people and they're always bitching about taxes and the new generation being lazy and on and on. Then I'm like, you have three houses, vacation in Hawaii annually, drive the best cars, do the coolest stuff and you're whining about your $20/hour employees not doing enough for you? Like, WTF. How does a guy think like that?

What we need here is more socialism. Higher tax rates at the high levels. I hate watching the spread between the haves and the have-nots widen. And I look at my kids and the leg up they'll have (paid-for university, down payments on houses, no debt) and it just seem so unbe-fataing-lievably unfair to their peers.

I actively vote against my own self interests in favour of parties who will do more for the greater good. You cut corporate taxes for a guy like me and I don't even fataing notice. Why give me that? Take it from me (I won't notice) and give it to 10 people for whom it will put literal food on their table or pay for their kids' dental work.

This becomes more of an issue as ways of attaining assets, like home ownership, become increasingly unattainable for the average worker.

IMO Canadian society is based on a social contract. We all deserve to see some benefit from our work. Spending your entire life working so you can barely afford rent is not a way to live, and in no way jives with Canadian society and values. The second home ownership becomes unattainable for the average worker, there's something fundamentally wrong.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Such an elementary perspective. People love stuff like Amazon for the time and money it saves them, it’s helped literally millions.

Until people find out Steve Bezos is worth $182 Billion and then that’s a problem.

You want to use entrepreneurship but then want to hobble the business person that took the chance (almost bankrupt multiple times)

It doesn’t work like that.

Jeff Bezos paying a 10% income tax rate, while his middle class workers pay 30-40% tax is absurd.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry, that was a rhetorical question. I do know the answer.

I know, I'm just piling on. Governments have the same problem as people (not living within their means). IMO it sucks that those who didn't decide to YOLO their finances are going to get stuck with the bill.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by blankall

Jeff Bezos paying a 10% income tax rate, while his middle class workers pay 30-40% tax is absurd.

Bezos doesn’t pay a 10% income tax rate .

His effective rate of tax on his wealth increase is very low , but that’s different then his Income tax rate

For example he had income of approx 4 billion between 04-09 but wealth increased to 100 billion

He would have paid very high tax bracket on that 4 billion (for easy math say 50%) so 2 billion in income tax

That’s 2% on his wealth growth in taxes. If you want to argue that is unfair / etc that’s a different arguement

He does not however have some magic way to pay a 10% income tax rate.

And when we get into taxing capital gains both on profit realization and before there’s a ton of other factors to consider

[Fuzz]

Fair enough, better to let the wealth just consolidate at the top, rather than discussing how ridiculous it is.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Fair enough, better to let the wealth just consolidate at the top, rather than discussing how ridiculous it is.

We can discuss - but don’t you agree we should have factually correct arguments in the discussion ?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Such an elementary perspective. People love stuff like Amazon for the time and money it saves them, it’s helped literally millions.

Until people find out Steve Bezos is worth $182 Billion and then that’s a problem.

You want to use entrepreneurship but then want to hobble the business person that took the chance (almost bankrupt multiple times)

It doesn’t work like that.

Hobble? That’s what you’re going with?

How does taxing a multi-billionaire at a rate that would see them remain a multi-billionaire who is still more than capable of continuing to pay people to grow their wealth hobble them?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Bezos doesn’t pay a 10% income tax rate .

His effective rate of tax on his wealth increase is very low , but that’s different then his Income tax rate

For example he had income of approx 4 billion between 04-09 but wealth increased to 100 billion

He would have paid very high tax bracket on that 4 billion (for easy math say 50%) so 2 billion in income tax

That’s 2% on his wealth growth in taxes. If you want to argue that is unfair / etc that’s a different arguement

He does not however have some magic way to pay a 10% income tax rate.

And when we get into taxing capital gains both on profit realization and before there’s a ton of other factors to consider

Well depending on how his options are structured taxation can be deferred until they are sold and then you can borrow money against the stock and just pay interest on the debt effectively deferring tax indefinitely. Also by simply holding the excel used option for a year it becomes a capital gain instead of income so taxed at half the rate

So yes he does have means of significantly reducing his taxes of both Capital Gains and Income that aren’t available to those without significant means.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Hobble? That’s what you’re going with?

How does taxing a multi-billionaire at a rate that would see them remain a multi-billionaire who is still more than capable of continuing to pay people to grow their wealth hobble them?

Substitute jealousy or envy, the point remains they pay personal taxes but simpletons who risk nothing cry about the wealth they still accumulate.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Fair enough, better to let the wealth just consolidate at the top, rather than discussing how ridiculous it is.

I almost think, with how much governments are printing cash, we need wealth hoarders or inflation would be driven up even more with the surplus money in circulation instead of the rich hoarding it.



very very uninformed guess... but hey

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Substitute jealousy or envy, the point remains they pay personal taxes but simpletons who risk nothing cry about the wealth they still accumulate.

Imagine carrying water for a billionaire like Bezos

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GGG

Well depending on how his options are structured taxation can be deferred until they are sold and then you can borrow money against the stock and just pay interest on the debt effectively deferring tax indefinitely. Also by simply holding the excel used option for a year it becomes a capital gain instead of income so taxed at half the rate

So yes he does have means of significantly reducing his taxes of both Capital Gains and Income that aren’t available to those without significant means.

While your post is correct , I am not sure why you quoted me when my point was the argument he pays 10% “income” tax is incorrect.

My point is he doesn’t pay a lower % of income tax on his taxable income . He pays the same rates on his taxable income as anyone.

And no , he doesn’t reduce his taxable income by means that aren’t available to the rest of us . Most of us just don’t receive the majority of our income in options or long term vesting shares, or ownership share appreciation

Again - not arguing whether or not the tax setup needs to change or is “fair” - but these urban myths that the rich somehow pay a lower tax “rate” then you or me need to stop. They pay the same tax rate on the type of Income and more importantly , wealth generation, as any of us do

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Substitute jealousy or envy, the point remains they pay personal taxes but simpletons who risk nothing cry about the wealth they still accumulate.

You’re the boss:

Originally Posted by Yoho

You want to use entrepreneurship but then want to hobble jealousy the business person that took the chance (almost bankrupt multiple times)

Originally Posted by Yoho

You want to use entrepreneurship but then want to hobble envy the business person that took the chance (almost bankrupt multiple times)

It would appear as though in each case you somehow managed to make your message even less sensible to the simpletons who don’t agree with you