[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[browna]

Originally Posted by getbak

Okay, that report earlier confused me today because it was said in yesterday's meeting that the third party had been engaged. I guess "engaged" and "signed" are 2 different things, but in reality a pointless distinction for most people.

There is a third party in place and they are doing work on the project, but they haven't officially been signed, so they can't publicly say it's Oak View Group.

Just scrambling COC PR clean upafter the backlash of this seemingly being no further along 4 months later.

Engaged likely means they've sent some feelers out, and maybe one or two companies have expressed some basic interest, and need some basic info to decide whether to have any interest or not, so that is far from anyone signing with any intent.

[Freeway]

The third party is a person who's helping find a deal.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by browna

Just scrambling COC PR clean upafter the backlash of this seemingly being no further along 4 months later.

Engaged likely means they've sent some feelers out, and maybe one or two companies have expressed some basic interest, and need some basic info to decide whether to have any interest or not, so that is far from anyone signing with any intent.

So, they discussed something in a public meeting that was held yesterday to deal with the backlash of a story that came out today?

From yesterday...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1511006452353323009


From today...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1511487202743623688

https://twitter.com/user/status/1511487205318934530

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't understand why a third party is needed for this. Is it normal?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The third party is a person who's helping find a deal.

So the third party is not contributing any money or looking to make money off the arena itself, they are just being hired as a broker by the city?

[darockwilder]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So the third party is not contributing any money or looking to make money off the arena itself, they are just being hired as a broker by the city?

I think that the third party deals with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to, they have people skills!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

I think that the third party deals with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to, they have people skills!

If the city is hiring a third party because their politicians don't have people skills, things are in a sad state.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't understand why a third party is needed for this. Is it normal?

It's tough to judge until we know who it is and what their role is. If it's one person or like a PR firm who will be calling up Murray Edwards and other potential partners to ask for money, yeah it seems weird to need to do that; but if it's more like an organization like OVG, who will bring the groups together to work out a funding model, it probably makes sense. Both the arenas and Seattle and Long Island sat in limbo for years until OVG got involved and got the balls rolling.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by darockwilder

I think that the third party deals with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to, they have people skills!

Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays..

[Vinny01]

I thought it was funny when I was chatting with a buddy who is an Oilers fan prior to the 9-5 game. He spent a bunch of time ripping on the Dome which is all valid as it is a dump of a barn right now. He then went on to speculate moving the team to Houston which I just started laughing at him.

Frank Serivali said this on the radio a while ago. You have a market here that is pretty close to a guaranteed sellout for a while, and the team will be the primary tenant for the foreseeable future. You have a local government who is willing to partner on building a new facility.

How many other owners in the league would jump at the chance to move their team to a hot market and a city ready to put significant public funds toward a new facility?

This will drag out longer than it should but it will get done

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I thought it was funny when I was chatting with a buddy who is an Oilers fan prior to the 9-5 game. He spent a bunch of time ripping on the Dome which is all valid as it is a dump of a barn right now. He then went on to speculate moving the team to Houston which I just started laughing at him.

Frank Serivali said this on the radio a while ago. You have a market here that is pretty close to a guaranteed sellout for a while, and the team will be the primary tenant for the foreseeable future. You have a local government who is willing to partner on building a new facility.

How many other owners in the league would jump at the chance to move their team to a hot market and a city ready to put significant public funds toward a new facility?

This will drag out longer than it should but it will get done

You can make the exact same case about Quebec City. Except they have a ready arena that any new team could pay 0 dollars for. They’ve been waiting for years and are gonna keep on waiting.

Nobody is moving a fresh team here without a new arena. Not a deal to build to one where the new team pays half. Not happening. That’s where people have the leverage all wrong, it’s all on the teams side and not on the city. The city needs a new arena much more than a potential NHL franchise does because they have options and we don’t. Maybe you don’t care about Calgary having a team, which is fine, but if you do then we need a new arena within the next 5-7 years.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

You can make the exact same case about Quebec City. Except they have a ready arena that any new team could pay 0 dollars for. They’ve been waiting for years and are gonna keep on waiting.

Nobody is moving a fresh team here without a new arena. Not a deal to build to one where the new team pays half. Not happening. That’s where people have the leverage all wrong, it’s all on the teams side and not on the city. The city needs a new arena much more than a potential NHL franchise does because they have options and we don’t. Maybe you don’t care about Calgary having a team, which is fine, but if you do then we need a new arena within the next 5-7 years.

No you can’t. QC doesn’t have near the corporate partnerships or overall wealth that Calgary does. If it did it would have a team already.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

ripping on the Dome which is all valid as it is a dump of a barn right now.

The Dome is a fantastic place to watch a hockey game. The lower suites and lower rows of the second level are among the best seats in the entire league.

It's the non-hockey stuff that is lacking.

That doesn't make it a dump IMO.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The Dome is a fantastic place to watch a hockey game. The lower suites and lower rows of the second level are among the best seats in the entire league.

It's the non-hockey stuff that is lacking.

That doesn't make it a dump IMO.

What about the roof? sounds like that's in rough shape, from the article posted a couple of days ago in this thread.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

What about the roof? sounds like that's in rough shape, from the article posted a couple of days ago in this thread.

Roof falls under non-hockey stuff.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Roof falls under non-hockey stuff.

Sure, but it doesn't matter how good the hockey stuff is if the building falls down.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The third party is a person who's helping find a deal.

Jeff Davison back to salvage his baby?

[Mr.Coffee]

I still can’t believe all of this was over a few million bucks that truthfully either side should have been willing to pay in full anyway.

Now we are really talking about 3rd party liaison negotiations? This is one that will cost Gondek (fairly or unfairly) massive political capital, and was just really silly and dumb. All around. Such a failure of private and public people due to ego and not much more.

So how much are the delays and the third party negotiating teams and the partnerships going to cost? More or less than the incremental $27mm that was needed in November / December for ####ing sidewalks and climate change made up BS. How are we so confident as a city we will get a better deal? This is basic #### and it’s just mind boggling how stupid this has gotten.

Just build a ####ing arena. Split cost 50/50. The end. Now? Now the City of Calgary is going to either a) eventually lose the Flames over time or B) end up with a far worse deal- you can book that for sure. Over 27mm. Just the epitome of fail. I hope people never forget that this deal was lost over so little. All the rhetoric of Edwards not willing to pay because of escalating costs doesn’t cut the mustard with me because costs are inflationary for the foreseeable future so no time like the present. He was offended the city got greedy and his gigantic ego prevented him from just moving on. Likewise for Gondek. So so stupid.

This city used to be a can-do city by both public and private good natured corporate citizens alike. Now this city (and country for that matter) are just inept losers who can’t get out of their own way or spell humility if it slapped them in the face. Almost everything any level of government in Canada gets involved with, sucks.

[TheoFleury]

Blaming the mayor for the project dying seems weird to me. I think people need to separate their feelings for her and realize that plug was getting pulled one way or the other because the Flames just weren't committed to it fully. She didn't handle it perfectly but really.. who cares? It's worrisome that rising costs rattled their cages so badly... that's not something that's likely to get better as time goes by. If you're going to do it and you want to control the costs, delaying it for any length of time is probably not a good idea. Get to it asap or pay even more later

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Blaming the mayor for the project dying seems weird to me. I think people need to separate their feelings for her and realize that plug was getting pulled one way or the other because the Flames just weren't committed to it fully. She didn't handle it perfectly but really.. who cares? It's worrisome that rising costs rattled their cages so badly... that's not something that's likely to get better as time goes by. If you're going to do it and you want to control the costs, delaying it for any length of time is probably not a good idea. Get to it asap or pay even more later

I don’t think I buy that, but I don’t think it’s her fault entirely either. She was the last one to have the call before popping off on Twitter immediately after so she is definitely culpable. You can’t just pretend the mayor is just a messenger when they are the supposed leader of city counsel otherwise why wasn’t the city manager making the call, you know, the person with the authority who actually runs the city. Gondek has some blame rightfully here and so does the entire operating committee that basically restructured the deal for the Flames after the original MOU was entered into. There would have been meetings and communication between the CSEC and city in the operating committee meetings where I am certain CSEC let the City know “hey, this is kinda bull####”. I guarantee this wasn’t just some last minute surprise call from Edwards, give me a break.

I agree the Flames got cold feet and look idiotic as well but there should have been compromise on escalating costs- full stop. And frankly if the Flames said $0 to increases above a threshold and that was their position you should still take it as the city since you are not going to get a better deal than this, obviously.

Like you think now the City is going to be able to build this for less civic dollars than what they otherwise would have been on the hook for? These monstrosities do not make that much money and the “asset” is a giant liability at the end of its life. No private investor is coming into this city and outlaying a better deal than the CSEC was offering and it was obvious in December. This isn’t even a hindsight thing. Obvious to anyone with half a business brain that the Gondek call shoulda been you know what Murray fine, we will pay the full $27mm extra it’s a rounding error. Now this sucker is gonna to cost Calgary way, way, way, way more. And if the Flames leave, the city will end up building it anyway for 100%. You watch. This should actually cost Gondek a #### load of political capital now that I think about it.