Russia invades Ukraine

[Itse]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I understand the context of this war and who the aggressor and bad guy is, but it has still jilted me a little seeing Undercoverbrother's constant cheering posts for Russian soldiers killed.

I mean they're still human beings that are likely indoctrinated and forced into this, and even likely lied to while preparing about what they're fighting for and/or doing.

Wanting one side to win is one thing, and yes wanting one side to win means soldiers killed on the other side, and that's fine because we're like all on a similar page in that respect. But the actual fist pump style cheer post of those deaths has been slightly off-putting for me.

For me, approaching the whole thing with a very cold attitude is a defense mechanism.

I'm a firm believer that most of the good and evil in the world is a creation of circumstances. I understand that the war is very quickly turning perfectly average young boys who just happened to get drafted in the the army into violent, cruel and even bloodthirsty creatures, that the vast majority of the people committing atrocities in Ukraine in 2022 could have in other circumstances gone their whole lives never doing anything particularly awful. Many of them could likely have been called good kids. Some of them could have turned out to be great men.

...but I just don't have that much empathy in me. I'm already blocking off most of my emotions about this war and actively avoiding things that would break that bubble.

Those young men are now both collectively and individually doing unspeakably evil things, and rationally it would be better for most people if they either died, surrendered, or ran off as quickly as possible, and I don't have the energy to differentiate between those three things.

This stuff is why war is a tragedy and a crime. It's dehumanizing and destroys individuality.

[Firebot]

Greetings from Poland (NSFWish)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...p-wix#2b37678f

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Greetings from Poland (NSFWish)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...p-wix#2b37678f

Someone wasn't paying attention in handwriting classes, that would have been much easier if he had flown in copperplate

[Locke]

These defections are also concerning seeing as we know what Putin does to those who cross him.

That man holds a grudge.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by Locke

These defections are also concerning seeing as we know what Putin does to those who cross him.

That man holds a grudge.

He's been planning this for over 20 years and is a war criminal, psychopathic, narcissistic, genocidal coward.

I hope Biden is right....that Putin has backed himself into a corner.
The world needs to stand up and refuse to accept this personal agenda he has and end this NOW!!!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Locke

These defections are also concerning seeing as we know what Putin does to those who cross him.

That man holds a grudge.

My father was in the Yugoslav army and defected to Italy during a border dispute and incident where each side fired shots in 1975. It wasn't a war of course, but they were gearing up for a possible military confrontation. He decided there was no way he could follow the orders he was given. He was a conscript and had no interest in being there in the first place. It wasn't the first time it happened and in fact both sides were put on high alert several times between 1945 and 1990.

When he was in custody in Italy, he became friends with some of the personnel there and they concocted a plan to stage his disappearance and presumed death. He was issued new documents with a new name and birthdate before immigrating to Canada from Italy. He figured it was the only way to stop the government there from going after his family, at least in his mind. It also meant that he had zero contact with them for 20 years. After the fall of Yugoslavia and our family reunification, we found out that the military would indeed routinely visit his old home to search for him and they would send threatening letters occasionally as well demanding that he turn himself in.

It occurred to me that some Russians could be doing similar things in Ukraine. It's obviously a much biggest choice to make if you have kids back home, but I can see a lot of the younger childless conscripts just saying, screw it and deserting. I would think staging your death or disappearance would be much harder these days though. The thought crossed my mind that one or more of these generals killed may have actually turned themselves in and are providing intel to the Ukrainians. I mean, probably not, but it wouldn't totally surprise me either.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I understand the context of this war and who the aggressor and bad guy is, but it has still jilted me a little seeing Undercoverbrother's constant cheering posts for Russian soldiers killed.

I mean they're still human beings that are likely indoctrinated and forced into this, and even likely lied to while preparing about what they're fighting for and/or doing.

Wanting one side to win is one thing, and yes wanting one side to win means soldiers killed on the other side, and that's fine because we're like all on a similar page in that respect. But the actual fist pump style cheer post of those deaths has been slightly off-putting for me.

God, you are, without fail, one of the more tiring posters.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by peter12

God, you are, without fail, one of the more tiring posters.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506276162502369304

[FlameOn]

MOD map updates for the day. Russia's Southern MD grouping has made some minor advances near Horlivka and just outside Donetsk. Lines otherwise seem to be at a stalemate again today with no real changes in control. According to MOD, Russians are mired in population control in their occupied cities.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506312995173023746

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506389362417754120

Larger map from Wikipedia and animated gif

Spoiler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_R...ion_of_Ukraine

[Trojan97]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506217794236465157

[Macman]

From CNN's live update just now;

Russia doesn't rule out nukes: Russian President Vladimir Putin's chief spokesperson has conceded that Russia has yet to achieve any of its military goals in Ukraine and refused to deny that Moscow could resort to the use of nuclear weapons. Dmitry Peskov, speaking to CNN, repeatedly refused to rule out that Russia would consider using nuclear weapons against what Moscow saw as an "existential threat."

That's what I'm afraid of, I think the West is treading cautiously but will have to confront Putin at some point. I saw another headline saying a clash with NATO was inevitable.

[activeStick]

I'm still leaning to the side that believes Putin has zero intention or desire to use nukes. He's just continuing to leverage the threat of use to keep the west at a distance.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I'm still leaning to the side that believes Putin has zero intention or desire to use nukes. He's just continuing to leverage the threat of use to keep the west at a distance.

This is where I'm hoping it's at. It has to be, right?

If not, It will be WWIII.

[indes]

I'm starting to lean in the opposite direction. I think he would have been less likely to use nukes had he taken Ukraine in a relatively quick fashion.

The longer this goes on, the more damage is done to Russia and their image of a strong nation. By all accounts this has been an embarrassment for Russia and I could see Putin getting desperate.

What does NATO have to fear from Russia besides their nukes at this point? Absolutely nothing, and if they're not actually willing to use them then no one has anything to fear from Russia. I just don't think that sits well with them as a country.

Hopefully I'm wrong but desperate times.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by indes

I'm starting to lean in the opposite direction. I think he would have been less likely to use nukes had he taken Ukraine in a relatively quick fashion.

The longer this goes on, the more damage is done to Russia and their image of a strong nation. By all accounts this has been an embarrassment for Russia and I could see Putin getting desperate.

What does NATO have to fear from Russia besides their nukes at this point? Absolutely nothing, and if they're not actually willing to use them then no one has anything to fear from Russia. I just don't think that sits well with them as a country.

Hopefully I'm wrong but desperate times.

I'm with you on this one, for Putin losing the war means a very good chance of hanging from a lamp post outside the Kremlin with his wife and kids, he has painted himself into a corner that there is no way out of.

The war no matter how it ends has cost Russia all it's standing as a military power and that's the only standing that Russia had, he will be lucky if Chechnya and Syria dont blow up and slip away from Russian influence after this along with the various 'Stans in the east, Russia is broke so it cant buy influence, its army is being ground to hamburger and wont be replaced for decades so he no longer has military power he can flex.

Putin has lost everything that he has slowly built up over the decades, all he has left to throw into the pot are chemical biological or tactical nuke.

[CaptainCrunch]

If there's one thing to be kind of grateful for, this has probably pushed back any Russian plans concerning the resource rich arctic circle.

[Scorch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506548432709771273

[Scorch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506536789082877957

[Cheese]

Chain of command for Russian nuclear launch


A 2020 document called "Basic Principles of State Policy of the Russian Federation on Nuclear Deterrence" says the Russian president takes the decision to use nuclear weapons.
A small briefcase, known as the Cheget, is kept close to the president at all times, linking him to the command and control network of Russia's strategic nuclear forces. The Cheget does not contain a nuclear launch button but rather transmits launch orders to the central military command - the General Staff.


The Russian General Staff has access to the launch codes and has two methods of launching nuclear warheads. It can send authorisation codes to individual weapons commanders, who would then execute the launch procedures. There is also a back-up system, known as Perimetr, which allows the General Staff to directly initiate the launch of land-based missiles, bypassing all the immediate command posts.


DO THE RUSSIANS HAVE RULES ON NUCLEAR LAUNCHES?
The 2020 doctrine presents four scenarios which might justify the use of Russian nuclear weapons:
-- the use of nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction against Russia or its allies;
-- data showing the launch of ballistic missiles aimed at Russia or its allies;
-- an attack on critical government or military sites that would undermine the country's nuclear forces response actions;
-- the use of conventional weapons against Russia "when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy".