Russia invades Ukraine

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by blankall

Russian soldiers dying being the preferable outcome and having sympathy for those dead Russian soldiers aren't mutually exclusive.

In the circumstances increased Russian casualties means that Ukraine is doing well in the war, which is a preferable outcome. That doesn't also mean I don't have sympathy for some teenager from a rural Russian community who's been forced into this. I want Ukrainians to defend themselves and be successful doing so. I wouldn't, for example, want Ukrainians to begin needlessly killing/torturing Russian civilians.

This. I'm not sure why it's being framed as one or the other.

[Leondros]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506303352111513605

Big news if true - given a large chunk of the Russian army is North of Kyiv and stalled.

[cam_wmh]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comm...tm_name=iossmf

[Johnny Makarov]

hmmm if you were the Ukrainians would you even take POWs? given the lack of supplies and all.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506209638362103814


Smart Russian. I wonder if offering Russian soldiers amnesty and a cash gift to defect would go a long way, they don't sound all that happy to be there. Crush the remaining morale as the bail on Putin's war.

[Geraldsh]

If they are part of a troop that was duped into fighting maybe they can be won over to fight for the Ukrainians

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506209638362103814


Smart Russian. I wonder if offering Russian soldiers amnesty and a cash gift to defect would go a long way, they don't sound all that happy to be there. Crush the remaining morale as the bail on Putin's war.

As a Russian, I'd be extremely worried about the repercussions for any family I had back at home. I guess you could hope that Russia treats you as an MIA. That would also mean abandoning your identity and any future communication with family/friends.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Leondros

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506303352111513605

Big news if true - given a large chunk of the Russian army is North of Kyiv and stalled.

They are a hostile invading force. If they are surrounded, Ukrainian forces should shell them to smithereens before you go in to take POWs. Can't be too careful.

[Bigtime]

A glimpse into the air war:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1506318111779164164

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Military Service may be mandatory, but acting as ruthless criminals is not. Until they better their act, it is not only reasonable but completely justified to hate them and treat them with contempt.

That is painting them all with a broad brush without nuance. There are also the Russian soldiers who are shotting themselves with captured Ukrainian weapons to get sent home and avoiding having to follow their orders, or just abandoning their vehicles and slashing their fuel lines so they don't have to fight. Many examples of this and its partially responsible for Russia's slow progress in this war.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

That is painting them all with a broad brush without nuance. There are also the Russian soldiers who are shotting themselves with captured Ukrainian weapons to get sent home and avoiding having to follow their orders, or just abandoning their vehicles and slashing their fuel lines so they don't have to fight. Many examples of this and its partially responsible for Russia's slow progress in this war.

Those would not be the ones talked about then, as they aren’t acting like ruthless criminals

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

That is painting them all with a broad brush without nuance. There are also the Russian soldiers who are shotting themselves with captured Ukrainian weapons to get sent home and avoiding having to follow their orders, or just abandoning their vehicles and slashing their fuel lines so they don't have to fight. Many examples of this and its partially responsible for Russia's slow progress in this war.

I'm sure that number is tiny. Most people are just going to follow orders. Maybe they'll panic if they think are going to die/get captured but I can't imagine there's many people shooting themselves in the leg to get out of the war.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm sure that number is tiny. Most people are just going to follow orders. Maybe they'll panic if they think are going to die/get captured but I can't imagine there's many people shooting themselves in the leg to get out of the war.

Yea it's not going to be the the majority of the forces for sure. But there's been several intercepts already and the vehicles being abandoned almost fully functional are so numerous its raising eyebrows. You don't get that many documented examples if it weren't happening quite often.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1504398777280757763

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498447549493092352

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498531702905450503

[kn]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comm...tm_name=iossmf

It’s as if my wife had written that. I’ve heard the same overview of Putin’s reign from her. Nemtsov was her and many peoples’ choice for taking over for Yeltsin. Later in life closer to death, Yeltsin admitted he made a mistake in choosing Putin as his successor. Of course, Nemtsov, Navalny, Kaza-Mura have all been taken out of the picture by Putin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Just a horrible and sad series of tweets.

https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status...xKSkweBtA&s=19

This might be the most depressing tweet thread I've ever read. Can't even imagine living in that setting, just basically waiting to die every day, feeling it could come at any minute and being in a state of acceptance about it, just hoping it's not too too bad. Those poor people...

#### Putin

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

This might be the most depressing tweet thread I've ever read. Can't even imagine living in that setting, just basically waiting to die every day, feeling it could come at any minute and being in a state of acceptance about it, just hoping it's not too too bad. Those poor people...

#### Putin

This is a now famous picture of a Croatian soldier defending the homeland against aggression in 1992. Croatians and Ukrainians have similar histories, essentially being occupied for the 20th century by their bigger neighbor. FlamesAddiction had a great post a while back explaining the similarities of the struggle. The tweets reminded me of the picture.

The rough translation is: "God, if I die young, send me to Heaven. I've already been to hell"

Spoiler!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This is a now famous picture of a Croatian soldier defending the homeland against aggression in 1992. Croatians and Ukrainians have similar histories, essentially being occupied for the 20th century by their bigger neighbor. FlamesAddiction had a great post a while back explaining the similarities of the struggle. The tweets reminded me of the picture.

The rough translation is: "God, if I die young, send me to Heaven. I've already been to hell"

Spoiler!

Let's not sanitize the Croat's activities during the 90's.

Croatia's actions at the time weren't all defensive. Ethnically cleansing people that had lived on the land for years should not be forgotten. They committed many horrible acts on ethnically non-Croatian civilians that lived in Croatia.

I don't want to derail this thread, a parallel would be if Ukraine had ethnically cleansed "Russians" from the Donbas from 2014 on.

[FlameOn]

Apparently more surrendering Russian troops, single Russian tanker "Misha" drove away with his T-72 and surrendered it to the Ukrainians. Rest of his tank crew deserted. Morale said to be extremely low, units running out of food. Americans also report Russian soldiers are also getting frostbite due to poor winter equipment.

A Russian armored corps member has surrendered to the Ukrainian Army and handed over his fully operable tank for a $10,000 reward, food and the promise of Ukrainian citizenship.

The Russian soldier identified as “’Misha’ “called us a few days ago. We passed information about him to the GUR military intelligence. A meeting point was designated. As he approached, a drone monitored the area to make sure this is not an ambush set-up. After that, our spec-ops forces detained him. It turned out that his tank crew mates had fled home, leaving him behind. He saw no point in continuing to fight," the adviser said.

The Russian soldier said he could not return home as his commander threatened to shoot him and write him off as combat loss.

"’Misha’ also told us that they were practically out of food stocks, while the management of their unit was chaotic and almost non-existent. Demoralization levels are enormous. As for Misha, he has received rather comfortable conditions. He will also receive $10,000 after the war ends, as well as the opportunity to apply for citizenship," said the minister's adviser.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/31...d#.YjoaQerMJhY
https://defence-blog.com/russian-sol...krainian-army/

The United States has seen indications that some Russian soldiers have gotten frostbite in Ukraine because they lack the appropriate cold-weather gear, according to a senior US defense official.

The lack of proper equipment is compounded by the shortages of food and fuel among Russian forces, the official said, as logistics and sustainment problems continue to plague Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which is nearing the one-month mark.

“Even in terms of personal equipment for some of their troops, they’re having trouble and we’ve picked up indications that some troops have suffered and [have been] taken out of the fight because of frostbite,” the official said on a call with reporters Tuesday morning.

The Russians are also having command and control challenges, which has made communications difficult, further exacerbating the logistics and sustainment problems, the official said.

Ukraine experienced a cold snap earlier this month.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...bc8391a49ec637

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

hmmm if you were the Ukrainians would you even take POWs? given the lack of supplies and all.

Yes, they need to. It allows for situations such as the trading of POWs for those the Russians capture. I think the mayor of Mariupol may have been exchanged as an example of one such scenario.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Yes, they need to. It allows for situations such as the trading of POWs for those the Russians capture. I think the mayor of Mariupol may have been exchanged as an example of one such scenario.

Maybe that's the solution. Just send any POW to Mariupol.

They can honestly say no harm will come to the Russian POW that won't also occur to the Ukraine citizens themselves.