Not to derail the thread here but the truth of the matter is that when it comes to the globe, wherever you have a little cash and wealth and good health is the best place to live.
This notion that a lot of people in Canada and the USA have that we are the best isn't rooted in reality globally. I am a proud born and raised Canadian of Greek origin and I can tell you everday I am looking at more and more at exercising my Greek citizenship and potentially spending more time there.
Before this invasion and the sanctions, I am sure if you were well off, had a great job and a great group of friends and family, than living in Moscow could come with an excellent overall life for a lot of people, probably at the expense of some very important things, but still.
Far too many people have this notion that life in North America is amazing even if your poor and that's not true at all. I hear this nonsense from my friends and family in Greece thinking that Canadian life is LA Dolce Vita and no issues or concerns here.
It used to be legitimately top 10-15 city in the world overall. Now I'm not sure we will come out of it in top 100. There's a lot of suspense in Moscow air now. We are like passengers on Titanic who happened to know ship's fate, but not their own fate. The ship is sure to sink but some of us will survive. And nobody is quite sure how bad it is going to be. People don't seem to be afraid of nuclear escalation. They are however quite afraid of losing job. Second worry is that we will be conscripted into army. If not, we expect a lot of crime that comes with jobless city.
Yet so far nothing has actually happened, except for skyrocketed prices. So far it's all about change in mood and behavior. We don't hire anymore. All projects are on hold except for vital ones. Otherwise, life has been largely the same. There's no shortage of food, water or medicines. No major layoffs. It's just the mood. Everyone feels some kind of inevitable crash.
Last edited by Pointman; 03-21-2022 at 03:39 PM.
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In Italian so use a mobile phone or some other translator. The accusation is that Russian troops war criminals are raping female Ukrainian soldiers, sometimes to death, then cutting their bodies to pieces to hide the evidence.
What the ####. I don't even know anymore. I tell myself to stop reading these articles but that's a cop out too. My (long lost) relatives are living this in person right now, why do I get to turn an eye?
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Last edited by White Out 403; 03-21-2022 at 03:56 PM.
In Italian so use a mobile phone or some other translator. The accusation is that Russian troops war criminals are raping female Ukrainian soldiers, sometimes to death, then cutting their bodies to pieces to hide the evidence.
What the ####. I don't even know anymore. I tell myself to stop reading these articles but that's a cop out too. My (long lost) relatives are living this in person right now, why do I get to turn an eye?
Here's the interview the article quotes from.
Ukraine is using propaganda as well so it's tough to believe it outright, but having seen the other atrocities that have taken place in this war I tend to think it's true.
“We have an ultimatum with points in it – ‘Follow it, and then we will end the war,’” Zelenskiy said in an interview with a Ukrainian broadcaster. “Ukraine cannot fulfil that ultimatum.”
In Italian so use a mobile phone or some other translator. The accusation is that Russian troops war criminals are raping female Ukrainian soldiers, sometimes to death, then cutting their bodies to pieces to hide the evidence.
What the ####. I don't even know anymore. I tell myself to stop reading these articles but that's a cop out too. My (long lost) relatives are living this in person right now, why do I get to turn an eye?
I saw some pretty horrible photo and video evidence of war crimes committed by Russian soldiers during the Chechen wars so I would not be surprised.
Nothing says effective modern military forces like uncontrolled raping and pillaging right guys? Apparently that's why Russian generals are getting killed.
From Foriegn Policy https://twitter.com/user/status/1506028136139575302
There's apparently also no guy/field marshal in charge of the Ukraine invasion at all either. Which lines up with exactly how the invasion happened, Putin thought they could take Kyiv in under a week so didn't put a Field Marshall or equivalent in charge. Insanely inept military planning.
MOD map updates for the day. Russia's Western MD grouping is expanding control around Sumy looking to cut off Ukrainian access to the city adding to the current list of cities cut off like Mariupol, and Chernihiv. Russia's Southern MD grouping forces have started advancing northwards from Mariupol. MOD also confirms the use of hypersonic missiles across Ukraine confirming suspected missile strikes on western Ukrainian military bases and staging grounds late last week. https://twitter.com/user/status/1505871299612139527 https://twitter.com/user/status/1506031949386813446
I understand the context of this war and who the aggressor and bad guy is, but it has still jilted me a little seeing Undercoverbrother's constant cheering posts for Russian soldiers killed.
I mean they're still human beings that are likely indoctrinated and forced into this, and even likely lied to while preparing about what they're fighting for and/or doing.
Wanting one side to win is one thing, and yes wanting one side to win means soldiers killed on the other side, and that's fine because we're like all on a similar page in that respect. But the actual fist pump style cheer post of those deaths has been slightly off-putting for me.
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If we know one thing about the Russian/Soviet military is that they have no compunction in offering bodies to the war meat grinder. They will keep throwing bodies at the problem as long as they can with little regard for the losses. How this is viewed by the mothers of dead Russian soldiers back home is a different matter. It could almost be excused when Russia was on the defensive, like in Stalingrad, but that is clearly not the case here.
I watched a video from New Yorker columnist Masha Gessen who suggested this won't be happening quickly. Between mobile crematoria and approval to use mass graves in Ukraine for Russian soldiers, soldiers having to relinquish cellphones before deploying, soldiers being deployed from various remote parts of Russia, and no independent press for validation, she suggested it could be months before families get any confirmation. Again, none of this will lead to any sort of mass uprising.
I found the insight of Dr. Fiona Hill, former deputy assistant to the president and senior director for European and Russian affairs on the US National Security Council, to be quite informative.
She makes the case that we need a broader international diplomatic effort from all UN members, but acknowledges that the solution to this is not immediately apparent and has the hallmarks of a World War, if we're not already in one.
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I understand the context of this war and who the aggressor and bad guy is, but it has still jilted me a little seeing Undercoverbrother's constant cheering posts for Russian soldiers killed.
I mean they're still human beings that are likely indoctrinated and forced into this, and even likely lied to while preparing about what they're fighting for and/or doing.
Wanting one side to win is one thing, and yes wanting one side to win means soldiers killed on the other side, and that's fine because we're like all on a similar page in that respect. But the actual fist pump style cheer post of those deaths has been slightly off-putting for me.
Taking the position that Russian soldiers are being forced into this and have no choice but to murder innocent civilians because they were lied to needs to stop. A couple days into the war you could say that. But we are almost a month in and Russian soldiers no longer get the benefit of a doubt. Ultimately the ONLY side anyone should be concerned about is the Ukrainian side. Someone fist pumping one side to win does nothing to change the outcome and if someone's feelings get hurt to see that, then this is the wrong thread to be in.
I will tell a story that I posted earlier; a couple days into this conflict, young Russian soldiers were arriving in my in-laws village and were pretty friendly at first. They were waving at residence from their tanks. Coming out and talking to them. Asking them for directions, for food and smoking with them. One of them even gave my wife's stepsister some sugar and coffee and showed him his tank. It's completely fit the reports that it was a bunch of young men that were lied to for the reason they were sent and had no idea the real reason they were there. Many of them legitimately thought they were there for training exercises and Ukrainians would welcome them.
You know what they are doing now, in the same village a month later? They are shooting at residence trying to fix the power lines who simply want to get power to do things like charge their phones and power their homes. They are shooting at people trying to leave towards Kharkov who are attempting to leave to a safer location out West. They are ransacking homes and shooting people who resist them. They are confiscating people's phones to see if they are posting Russian soldier's positions on the village's Telegram page (which is one of the few means of informing the area of what is happening). They are bringing in buses to the village and deporting people to Belgorod (this happened to my wife's 2 male cousins a couple days ago). The Russians set off explosions in the city's center recently (killed 6 people and injured many others) and then bring in ambulances from RUSSIA along with a TV crew to showcase how they are 'helping' the Ukrainians. Much of this sounds surreal and unbelievable, but this is the reality confirmed to us as we try to keep track of my wife's family's situation who are living in the midst of this.
ONE side deserves pity and compassion, and that is the Ukrainian side and their side only. Russia has the power to make this stop. Ukraine does not. I side with UCB in hoping that the Russian death toll mounts. Because deceased Russian soldiers, who dared to invade a sovereign country on UA's own soil, means less chance those same soldiers kill innocent Ukrainians. Again, they are the priority here.
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There are plenty of bad people in the Russian army, but let's also remember that military service is mandatory. It's likely a system that many rich people are able to avoid, so the poor overwhelmingly bear the burden. The consequences of not fighting are likely extreme, for both the soldier and their family.
It's not really fair to generalize all soldiers. Having sympathy for one person also doesn't mean you have less sympathy for another.
This is a situation where the war stands to only benefit Putin and the people in power. Blaming a conscripted teenager isn't really fair. There's even evidence that Putin is using child soldiers by sending cadets in. The Russian military process also isolates soldiers. They aren't allowed to use cell phones, the internet, non sanctioned media, etc.. and have little communication with the outside. Putin is brainwashing teenagers and then sending them into a brutal battle with sub standard equipment.
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There are plenty of bad people in the Russian army, but let's also remember that military service is mandatory.
Military Service may be mandatory, but acting as ruthless criminals is not. Until they better their act, it is not only reasonable but completely justified to hate them and treat them with contempt.
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But the actual fist pump style cheer post of those deaths has been slightly off-putting for me.
I am sorry you have been put off.
Naked aggression against a sovereign nation is really off putting to me, now couple that with terror bombing and cruise missile strikes against civilian targets, well now we are in stomach churning territory.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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In time, I will have sympathy for the brainwashed Russian conscripts, but only if they are tortured by the realization that they were part of a terrorist organization that committed war crimes.
But for now, the only good Russian soldier is a dead Russian soldier. As long as Putin insists on waging war in Ukraine, there is a binary choice: dead Russian soldiers or dead Ukrainian civilians.
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In time, I will have sympathy for the brainwashed Russian conscripts, but only if they are tortured by the realization that they were part of a terrorist organization that committed war crimes.
But for now, the only good Russian soldier is a dead Russian soldier. As long as Putin insists on waging war in Ukraine, there is a binary choice: dead Russian soldiers or dead Ukrainian civilians.
Russian soldiers dying being the preferable outcome and having sympathy for those dead Russian soldiers aren't mutually exclusive.
In the circumstances increased Russian casualties means that Ukraine is doing well in the war, which is a preferable outcome. That doesn't also mean I don't have sympathy for some teenager from a rural Russian community who's been forced into this. I want Ukrainians to defend themselves and be successful doing so. I wouldn't, for example, want Ukrainians to begin needlessly killing/torturing Russian civilians.
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