Landeskog to have knee surgery - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

mikephoen · 03-13-2022, 12:29 PM

Imagine how Bill Belichick would shred the NHL if someone hired him as GM. There are probably 100 more loopholes like this that Belichick would take advantage of.

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying"

Textcritic · 03-13-2022, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Chicago did it one year. They put Kane on the IR with a broken collar bone. Added Vermette, Timonen at the trade deadline. Kane was suddenly ready to go in the 1st game of the post season.

From 2016:
https://www.tsn.ca/gms-would-like-an...phole-1.454158

I am guessing there are actually several more less-high profile incidents that has escaped everyone's notice.

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Tampa was the first team that really pushed it though. Kane had a broken collarbone and the time-line would maybe be a week or 2 before the end of the season. Who knows with Kucherov, but unlikely that long term of an injury was just magically ready to be back when the playoffs start. Colorado and Vegas are more in the Chicago avenue where an injury occurred and they may be able to take advantage of it. You'd have to think Vegas would bring Stone back if they could since they are in trouble to make the playoffs with their current roster. Colorado is sitting pretty where they could sit half their team and still finish first.

Who knows? WE know. When Kucherov had his surgery the timeline was right on the line of the end of the regular season. And why would it be "magic" that a player's injury was healed and rehabbed in accordance with the scheduled timeline? It boggles my mind that people continue to honestly think that TB would not have preferred to have had Kucherov available to them for the entire season last year. Just as Vegas is demonstrating now, having your best player on IR is NEVER ideal.

Aarongavey · 03-13-2022, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njord

I just look at the Vegas situating. Vegas acquires Eichel and Stone goes on LTIR. This totally circumvents the cap but Stones injury is legit and needed time off. I don't have the stats but I don't think Vegas has been that much better with Eichel instead of Stone. Once the playoffs start in sure Stone draws back into the lineup but think of this him and Eichel will pretty much have no practice time together and no games played together. No chemistry whatsoever. It's gonna blow up in their faces IMO

Vegas is getting the full Eichel effect. Sadly adding Eichel probably means they miss the playoffs and the Oilers get in. If there is one thing Jack is good at it is missing the playoffs. 4-7-1 since Jack entered the lineup.

kyuss275 · 03-13-2022, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Vegas is getting the full Eichel effect. Sadly adding Eichel probably means they miss the playoffs and the Oilers get in. If there is one thing Jack is good at it is missing the playoffs. 4-7-1 since Jack entered the lineup.

Your assuming that if Eichel didn’t come in that stone and lehner would magically be healthy.

Textcritic · 03-13-2022, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Vegas is getting the full Eichel effect. Sadly adding Eichel probably means they miss the playoffs and the Oilers get in. If there is one thing Jack is good at it is missing the playoffs. 4-7-1 since Jack entered the lineup.

That is also 4-7-1 since losing their best player, Stone, right?

Aarongavey · 03-13-2022, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Your assuming that if Eichel didn’t come in that stone and lehner would magically be healthy.

You're assuming that both Stone and Eichel can fit under the cap on that team.

Jay Random · 03-13-2022, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You're assuming that both Stone and Eichel can fit under the cap on that team.

No, if Stone can't play it's irrelevant whether he fits under the cap.

FlamesAddiction · 03-13-2022, 02:36 PM

Just because they are failing to capitalize on taking advantage of the system, it doesn't mean that isn't what they are attempting to do. No one ever said that there wasn't risk involved with this approach.

It's not even that Vegas is trying to be sneaky about it. McPhee said when Eichel was acquired that they weren't worried about cap implications because they expected that they will have other players on the LTIR by the time Eichel was ready. Then when it actually played out that way, some people question whether it was a coincidence or intentional?

FusionX · 03-13-2022, 03:41 PM

Don't look now but LA just put Doughty and Brown on LTIR as well. Competition for Giroux?

dissentowner · 03-13-2022, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FusionX

Don't look now but LA just put Doughty and Brown on LTIR as well. Competition for Giroux?

People ridiculed me when I said after TB pulled the LTIR trick last year this would be the new norm. Well, here we are.

btimbit · 03-13-2022, 03:47 PM

Just put a cap in for the playoffs, even if it's a bit higher. Resting guys and healing up before the playoffs makes complete sense from a physical point of view but I don't see how anyone can argue this isn't abusing a loophole when it's being used the way it has

Jiri Hrdina · 03-13-2022, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

Just put a cap in for the playoffs, even if it's a bit higher. Resting guys and healing up before the playoffs makes complete sense from a physical point of view but I don't see how anyone can argue this isn't abusing a loophole when it's being used the way it has

Any such changes will have to be collectively bargained

btimbit · 03-13-2022, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Any such changes will have to be collectively bargained

Yep, which means teams that take advantage will be let off the hook, just like they were with those long-term front-ended contracts that had to be bargained out last time. So like I said, if you can't beat them, join them. At this point any team not doing it is dumb, no point playing the moral high ground and being left behind like Burke was and then being upset you got spurned by the leauge

FlamesAddiction · 03-13-2022, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Any such changes will have to be collectively bargained

Yup, and I don't think it would be easy to bargain for. Think about it from a players perspective. You get acquired by a playoff team, but then you have to miss the playoffs or possibly get waived when the team is healthy.

It would probably prevent teams from making risky deals, but then it also deters a team from trying to plug gaps if they become injury riddled, which isn't good for the fans either.

I think the NHL need to do something to prevent the uneven playing field LTIR abuse can create, but I am not sure what the answer is. Maybe if a team is icing a roster that is above the cap ceiling in the playoffs, the amount they are over (or at least a portion) carries over until the next season. It wouldn't penalize the players for doing nothing wrong other than being traded for, while making teams think twice about mortgaging the future.

Jiri Hrdina · 03-13-2022, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yep, which means teams that take advantage will be let off the hook, just like they were with those long-term front-ended contracts that had to be bargained out last time. So like I said, if you can't beat them, join them. At this point any team not doing it is dumb, no point playing the moral high ground and being left behind like Burke was and then being upset you got spurned by the leauge

It still requires a player being deemed injured or going under surgery. I don't know if that argument can be made with Monahan.

Jiri Hrdina · 03-13-2022, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yup, and I don't think it would be easy to bargain for. Think about it from a players perspective. You get acquired by a playoff team, but then you have to miss the playoffs or possibly get waived when the team is healthy.

It would probably prevent teams from making risky deals, but then it also deters a team from trying to plug gaps if they become injury riddled, which isn't good for the fans either.

I think the NHL need to do something to prevent the uneven playing field LTIR abuse can create, but I am not sure what the answer is. Maybe if a team is icing a roster that is above the cap ceiling in the playoffs, the amount they are over (or at least a portion) carries over until the next season. It wouldn't penalize the players for doing nothing wrong other than being traded for, while making teams think twice about mortgaging the future.

I agree. I think people have to realize that it's both the players and teams that are part of this, and I don't know that either side will be keen to resolve.
From a fan point of view, some sort of playoff cap makes sense, but I simply don't think this is a priority loop hole for either players or owners.

btimbit · 03-13-2022, 04:21 PM

It wouldn't come down to players v owners it would have to be something pushed from the league with the point of view of bettering the business, much like the earlier lockouts Bettman was a part of

Jiri Hrdina · 03-13-2022, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btimbit

It wouldn't come down to players v owners it would have to be something pushed from the league with the point of view of bettering the business, much like the earlier lockouts Bettman was a part of

Bettman serves the wishes of the owners. If they don't want it, he won't push for it.

Cecil Terwilliger · 03-13-2022, 04:25 PM

It will never get fixed because it isn’t a loophole. Just like the NCAA rule isn’t a loophole.

Teams and players both like it. And the nhl would never admit that teams are putting guys on LTIR under false pretences, holding them out longer than they need to be or even exaggerating injuries for the sake of cap circumvention.

The only real solution is to take advantage of it. Anyone who has a big cap hit and is underperforming and plays for a cup contender should be sat out and put on LTIR. It also works for superstars who are legitimately hurt or have nagging injuries.

Lucic and Monahan are the obvious targets for the Flames.

Jay Random · 03-13-2022, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The only real solution is to take advantage of it. Anyone who has a big cap hit and is underperforming and plays for a cup contender should be sat out and put on LTIR.

You can't do that, and nobody has yet.

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It also works for superstars who are legitimately hurt or have nagging injuries.

The only cases so far have been superstars who are legitimately hurt. I keep asking, and so far nobody has ever answered me: If Vegas's moves are all about cap circumvention, why did they pick Stone of all players to put on LTIR?