[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by timbit

The reverse was also true.

It really isn’t.

Johnny has proven himself successful with a number of line mates.

Monny not at all.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It really isn’t.

Johnny has proven himself successful with a number of line mates.

Monny not at all.

“True, but even when Monny was successful he owed a lot of that success to Johnny.” The Cobra

I rebuked mathgod’s statement by saying that Monahan was equally important to Johnny, until Sean incurred major injuries.

Reading comprehension?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by timbit

You dramatically changed the context of my comment.

When they played together , especially early, they were equally important to each other.

Who did Johnny play with in the first half of 18-19?

You can’t just bury and falsely critique a significant player’s past because of major injuries.

It’s not fair…and blatantly false.

I'm not burying Monahan's past. He has had success prior to the last 2 years. I'm not denying that.

Point is, I think Johnny would have had success all throughout his career even if he had never played with Mony. However, I'm not entirely convinced that Mony would have had the success he had, if he hadn't been playing with an elite winger like Johnny.

Are injuries largely to blame for Mony's decline? Yes. However, when you compare their career numbers side by side, it's evident that Johnny has always been a significantly better player than Mony, even when Mony was at his best.

So saying they were equally important to each other, is somewhat inaccurate.

[TheChief]

Mony should be in the press box. If Dube was better at face offs (Monys saving grace) I think he would be taking his roster spot.



I have found Lucic to have dropped off a bit from earlier in the year as well. I guess we couldn't expect him to keep up his 25 goal pace.



These two need to be moved in the off season or bought out so we can retain our UFA and RFA players.

[Teroy]

My, My, all this dislike,,,,,,,,,,,

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm not burying Monahan's past. He has had success prior to the last 2 years. I'm not denying that.

Point is, I think Johnny would have had success all throughout his career even if he had never played with Mony. However, I'm not entirely convinced that Mony would have had the success he had, if he hadn't been playing with an elite winger like Johnny.

Are injuries largely to blame for Mony's decline? Yes. However, when you compare their career numbers side by side, it's evident that Johnny has always been a significantly better player than Mony, even when Mony was at his best.

So saying they were equally important to each other, is somewhat inaccurate.

I would say it’s 100% inaccurate, not somewhat. Johnny carried the line, Monahan was riding his coattail. Injuries contributed to his downfall but he was never a complete player. It’s just more obvious now.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

2013 draft class, Monny is:

1st in gp (despite the noted injuries)
2nd in goals (MacKinnon finally overtook him last season)
3rd in pts (behind MacKinnon and Barkov).

He has earned every penny.


The last 6 years of their deals (SM - JG)

Decent - Decent
Good - Great
Great - Great+
Decent - Decent+
Poor - Poor until the end when it didn't really matter anymore
Bad - Great


It's only been the last 70 games or so where Gaudreau has really blown him out of the water.

It’s obvious Monahan was so bad that he pulled down Johnny in the previous 2 years

Luckily Sutter is smart enough to split them.

[djsFlames]

With Toffoli those two should be eating up the competition as a third line.

They can do better than 49 cf%

I don't dislike what I've seen from Mony. There have been good games since the calendar turned, but let's just say he's underwhelmed on nights where the rest of the forwards in the top 9 have definitely "whelmed".

[The Boy Wonder]

Mony plays like a guy we all know, Just bangs em in from in close,

Couple kids, cardio goes,

Can’t score from close range anymore now that he’s lost the wheels

Tells the boys the fam commitment is too much, but he knows deep down he belongs in div 6

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

With Toffoli those two should be eating up the competition as a third line.

They can do better than 49 cf%

I don't dislike what I've seen from Mony. There have been good games since the calendar turned, but let's just say he's underwhelmed on nights where the rest of the forwards in the top 9 have definitely "whelmed".

Prior to Toffoli he was almost always the best player on his line by a mile. Since then he’s been obviously not as good as Toffoli but clearly better than either Lucic or Dube. And outside of last game, in which he was as bad as the rest of the team, I think he’s played well. Really well on PP2 in fact.

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Mony plays like a guy we all know, Just bangs em in from in close,

Couple kids, cardio goes,

Can’t score from close range anymore now that he’s lost the wheels

Tells the boys the fam commitment is too much, but he knows deep down he belongs in div 6

What a stupid analogy. Monahan plays like a guy who’s recovering from surgery. Wanna know why?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Mony plays like a guy we all know, Just bangs em in from in close,

Couple kids, cardio goes,

Can’t score from close range anymore now that he’s lost the wheels

Tells the boys the fam commitment is too much, but he knows deep down he belongs in div 6

Jesus, why you gotta @ me so hard, bro?

[CsInMyBlood]

Monahan coupled with his salary makes him the weakest link on this team by far. He does not make any player that plays with him better. He drags them all down. There is no chemistry between Monahan and Toffoli. Toffoli is doing what he has in spite of Sean Monahan on his line. Lucic has been pulled down. Dube was pulled down.

Sick of the "still recovering from surgery" line. Nobody can tell me hes struggling to skate out there, I watch him every shift, hes skating as well as he ever has.

He is not helping this team win games. Im assuming if it wasn't for the hope and dream of trying to offload him I'm sure he would have been scratched a couple of times already. It's not like hes out producing Dube or Ruzicka at 5 on 5. Whatever line hes on is always the one that doesnt show up. He just doesnt fit.

The worst part is if we cannot move him, which seems inevitable because who would possibly want him, GOOD players that contribute to winning on this team will not be on the team next year. 7.8% of your cap spent on such a replacement level non factoring player is a disaster.

[bigrangy]

He’s skating fine, but his upper body strength is gone.

Watch him tonight, and watch when he has the puck on his stick. He gets muscled off the puck almost without effort.

Monahan used to be exceptional at recovering loose pucks and getting them to a teammate, but now when he gets the puck he’s a simple stick check and the puck is going the other way. I’m not sure what metrics the team physicians are targeting in their recovery plan but whatever they’re doing isn’t working. A better management group would have him on LTIR right now working on building strength.

[Erick Estrada]

He's 27 going on 37. Not sure he will be a viable NHL player at 30. It seems he's a sinkhole for linemates as he has by far the team's worst +/-. You can argue that Lewis would be better taking his place on the 3rd line. The path for NHLers is not always linear into their 30's. He's like a lot of once productive players whose career ends early, similar to Turris.

[TheChief]

It would be interesting to see the stat line of what his line has produced in FEB (Flames were basically perfect). My bet is he was a minus player and no one on that line that spent any time with Monahan had more then 5 points at even strength *that might be generous*.


I guess this is easy enough to do upon a quick google search...


Dube : G2 A1 +/- +1

Lucic : G0 A3 P3 +/- +3

Monahan : G1 A2 P3 +/- 0


The Flames went 10-1 February outscoring opponents by a 49-25 margin


Did a bit of a dive into a few other players..Coleman has really turned it around. He has looked a lot better and his stats back up the eye test.


Coleman Feb : G3 A7 P10 +/- +7

[GioforPM]

^^ He hasn’t produced. But plus minus is dumb.

[Flamesfan05]

Monahan has the least point amongst all regular including Lewis

He does not fit with anybody on the team

Anyone saying he is playing well is either lying or drunk with koolaid….probably the latter

[Jore]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Monahan coupled with his salary makes him the weakest link on this team by far. He does not make any player that plays with him better. He drags them all down. There is no chemistry between Monahan and Toffoli. Toffoli is doing what he has in spite of Sean Monahan on his line. Lucic has been pulled down. Dube was pulled down.

Sick of the "still recovering from surgery" line. Nobody can tell me hes struggling to skate out there, I watch him every shift, hes skating as well as he ever has.

He is not helping this team win games. Im assuming if it wasn't for the hope and dream of trying to offload him I'm sure he would have been scratched a couple of times already. It's not like hes out producing Dube or Ruzicka at 5 on 5. Whatever line hes on is always the one that doesnt show up. He just doesnt fit.

The worst part is if we cannot move him, which seems inevitable because who would possibly want him, GOOD players that contribute to winning on this team will not be on the team next year. 7.8% of your cap spent on such a replacement level non factoring player is a disaster.

Ruzicka has 7 5-on-5 points in 180 minutes of ice time. Monahan has 9 5-on-5 points in... 612 minutes of ice time. Monahan's 5-on-5 points per 60 minutes is sandwiched between Gudbranson and Lewis. Lewis and Brett Ritchie are the only regulars with lower even strength production on the team.

Ironically he was putting up better chance rates without Toffoli. Though he was being outscored at the worst rate out of all regulars on the team at 5-on-5: 18 goals for to 27 goals against.

I like the Toffoli acquisition but was wary of the team stapling him and Monahan together at all costs just because they were junior line-mates/friends. Lucic-Monahan-Toffoli simply does not work. There's not a single speed or carry option on the line. They need to try something else, break up that line, move Monahan to wing, or scratch him for some different looks.

[GioforPM]

^^ I thought the line would work but they haven’t really. Lucic has looked terrible on that line. Monahan I thought was carrying better. But they just haven’t clicked.

That said, I hate not giving guys enough time to gel. This was everyone’s Bennett complaint and it’s valid.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Monahan has the least point amongst all regular including Lewis

He does not fit with anybody on the team

Anyone saying he is playing well is either lying or drunk with koolaid….probably the latter

Nice.

Back to the "you have to have issue if you disagree with what I proclaim" stance. Such a good look.

Honestly though I don't think anyone is suggesting Monahan is killing it this year, in a slump, unlucky or dominant and nobody else can see it because they're drunk or lying or insane.

He's struggled.

I just think there are some of us that see him as a human being that has been a good soldier for the Flames over the past 9 years, and possibly earning a discussion about what's going on without dumping all over the guy is callous fashion.

He's not the Monahan of old, but when you dig into his numbers he and Dube for whatever reason have hugely negative GF60 vs xGF60 differentials. They have generated more chances than they've finished, and are positive in expected play and not negative.

So why isn't he finishing? That's what I don't get. His footspeed is similar, but when he gets set up it's always into the crest in the tummy and never towards corners.

Complete lack of confidence? Wrist issues still a problem?