Russia invades Ukraine

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Interesting comparison between Ukraine and Iraq. How many countries did Ukraine invade, I can't recall.

Sadam Hussein was a sociopathic ####### (who probably was responsible for the murder of more Iraqis than the Iranian and US militaries combined). His reckless decision to invade Kuwait is irrelevant to the fact that many everyday Iraqis had the courage to go into the street with a rifle to defend their families and country against a foreign invader (which was, I think, _Q_'s real point).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Sadam Hussein was a sociopathic ####### (who probably was responsible for the murder of more Iraqis than the Iranian and US militaries combined). His reckless decision to invade Kuwait is irrelevant to the fact that many everyday Iraqis had the courage to go into the street with a rifle to defend their families and country against a foreign invader (which was, I think, _Q_'s real point).

Comparison between Iraq would be better be to Russia and Ukraine to Kuwait.

If there was any justice, an international coalition would be able to invade Russia and remove their dictator and demilitarize them, just like they did in Iraq.

[Incogneto]

25 years ago, jokes about Ukrainians were how dumb our heritage was.

‘You hear about the Ukrainian submarine? ….’

You hear about the Ukrainian helicopter? ….’

Here’s to the next 25 years of Ukrainian jokes about how badass they are!

‘Chuck Norris wears Ukrainian flag jammies to bed!’

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont really know where you're going with this, but it just rings that little bell.

The Russians think the Ukrainians 'invaded' historical Russian territory. So by sheer existence the Ukrainians are occupiers.

I mean. Look at that statement. The mental gymnastics required for anyone to think that statement makes any degree of sense is unreal.

Forgive my ignorance, but haven’t the Ukrainians been in the region for a long time?

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Azure

Cannot imagine needing to do this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497353864948891650

i remember as a teenager talking to our new neighbours that moved in next store. they came from Israel. the dad had amazing stories of life there. the main reason they left and came to Canada was he was just done with having to sit in his kids' school bus with a machine gun to make sure they'd get to school safely.


i can't fathom having to live like that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Sadam Hussein was a sociopathic ####### (who probably was responsible for the murder of more Iraqis than the Iranian and US militaries combined). His reckless decision to invade Kuwait is irrelevant to the fact that many everyday Iraqis had the courage to go into the street with a rifle to defend their families and country against a foreign invader (which was, I think, _Q_'s real point).

Yes, that was no doubt Q's point.

However, there is a significant difference, in that there was terrorism that spawned the Iraqi invasion (rightly or wrongly). Whereas, there is no such underlying issue with Ukraine.

But Q took that and escalated it with the racism card. Not saying there is no justification for that, but again, the situations are very different. And to dismiss the public response as white vs muslamic is somewhat misleading IMO.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Comparison between Iraq would be better be to Russia and Ukraine to Kuwait.

If there was any justice, an international coalition would be able to invade Russia and remove their dictator and demilitarize them, just like they did in Iraq.

If there was any justice, there would be no war, no violence, and human beings would just treat each other with decency and respect. But justice is an elusive thing.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Interesting comparison between Ukraine and Iraq. How many countries did Ukraine invade, I can't recall.

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont really know where you're going with this, but it just rings that little bell.

The Russians think the Ukrainians 'invaded' historical Russian territory. So by sheer existence the Ukrainians are occupiers.

I mean. Look at that statement. The mental gymnastics required for anyone to think that statement makes any degree of sense is unreal.

I mean.... the only country Saddam occupied was Kuwait. Kuwait was basically never a real country until the Brittish decided to set up a client state in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq) to protect their assets in the region. Saddam just saw it as taking back what was rightfully his.

Just for the record, I think Saddam is a pile of garbage and he was wrong. Still, as Locke indicated, politicians go through any and all kinds of mental gymnastics in order to justify the occupation of another country.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To be clear, I think ALL of our politicians are spineless and useless. THAT was my point - not trying to take a jab at Liberals. I think it's a function of how hostile the political threads are, but man do peoples' backs get up quickly

If you throw gas, you can't be shocked when it's lit on fire.

This Ukrainian president was a literal actor 5 years ago. You never know how people will react in these monents and making assumptions about it is stupid.

His actions are motivating to the Ukrainian fighters though which is a key part of this. The Russian soldiers are doing a job, the Ukraine side has a stronger will. Russians will over power them eventually if they stick it out, but the longer they stick it the worse it gets for Putin.

[Sylvanfan]

My Grandfather was Ukranian and born 119 years ago would always tell this story of hiding for 3 days from the Russian Army as a teen ager. He always warned not to trust the Russians. Been hearing those words from 30 years ago ring in my head.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Forgive my ignorance, but haven’t the Ukrainians been in the region for a long time?

The Ukrainian national awakening began in the 1600s when some started declaring as something other than Russian, and they started exploring nationhood as early as the 1700s.

Russians believe that Ukrainians are Russians who fell away from Russia because of outside influence.

As far as national awakenings go, the Ukrainian identity is relatively new, that much is true. But all nations and ethnicities break apart from others at some point in history.

[afc wimbledon]

What I don't understand is why we arent at least moving assets into Poland and East Germany so the Russians have to worry about them, there's no reason the US dont fly fighter sweeps into Ukraine air space, it is legal, it isnt an attack but it would give the Russians something to think about

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Ukrainian national awakening began in the 1600s when some started declaring as something other than Russian, and they started exploring nationhood as early as the 1700s.

Russians believe that Ukrainians are Russians who fell away from Russia because of outside influence.

As far as national awakenings go, the Ukrainian identity is relatively new, that much is true. But all nations and ethnicities break apart from others at some point in history.

And they have been treated horribly by Russians?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Awesome since were doing the inclusive thing. Here’s my complex take. Biden and Obama are morons for canceling Keystone XL, which would allow the US to fully end imports of Russian Oil which is about $500MM/day flowing to Russia aka Putin and his circle.

Oh and he’s a moron for not canceling those imports right now….but morso the modern pipeline blocking environmental ding bats that fuel his base are the real enablers here. He’s backed into a corner of gas shortages they helped cause and less oil makes everyone angry. The kicker is They’ve been told clearly by many that buying blood oil would cause strife. Now its more in your face than ever before.

Oh and the EU is the same. Their addiction to Russian energy caused this. They aren’t doing anything either.

So those are my complex feelings. The modern environmental movement has failed the world full stop. It succeeded in only one thing, getting people to buy Teslas and enabling exactly what you see now.

Where would the extra 800K bpd come from. Alberta is already at record production.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

And they have been treated horribly by Russians?

Well, there was the whole Holodomor thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

The when the Nazis invaded, there were a lot of Nazi collaborators that wanted to use the Nazis to get revenge on Russia and "free" them. After WW2, Stalin punished Ukrainians hard for not resisting the Nazis hard enough.

[PeteMoss]

100,000 Ukrainian have left their homes per UN Secretary general.

This is a nightmare.

[timun]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Forgive my ignorance, but haven’t the Ukrainians been in the region for a long time?

A popular opinion in Russia is that Ukraine itself is not a legitimate polity, Ukraine has no separate culture and history of its own, Ukrainians are not a culturally distinct people thus Ukrainians are de facto Russian. Putin and his cronies have stated many times previously that they don't believe Ukraine is a legitimate nation-state and doesn't have any inherent right to exist. (Same goes for Belarus.)

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

And they have been treated horribly by Russians?

I had to laugh out loud.

Yeah, man. They have. Russians are ####s.

[8 Ball]

The Ukrainian army helped get our Afghan translaters out. The least we can do is send in some some sniper teams.

[Manhattanboy]

Probably been said but Putin will forever be grouped with Hitler and the other evil tyrants of the world. That’s his legacy. Nothing but a KGB thug.