2022: The year the world returns to war?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Deter Ukraine from invading their own country? Quite a reality Putin is crafting...

I get what you're saying, but when Russia did the same in Chechnya, westerners said it's a war. You can word it differently like "prevent Ukrainian regular army from moving into the region and massacre it's own people" (who are rebels and thus mostly criminals). Basically Putin's point is that he wants to prevent blood shed that would happen had he not recognized rebel republics. It is kinda phony, but not as egregious as it may sound

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get what you're saying, but when Russia did the same in Chechnya, westerners said it's a war. You can word it differently like "prevent Ukrainian regular army from moving into the region and massacre it's own people" (who are rebels and thus mostly criminals). Basically Putin's point is that he wants to prevent blood shed that would happen had he not recognized rebel republics. It is kinda phony, but not as egregious as it may sound

It's egregious and very phony.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Basically Putin's point is that he wants to prevent blood shed that would happen had he not recognized rebel republics. It is kinda phony, but not as egregious as it may sound

Wants to prevent blood shed by amassing 100s of thousands of troops in strategic areas surrounding Ukraine and not just the areas he would recognize? Forgive me for not believing that story.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get what you're saying, but when Russia did the same in Chechnya, westerners said it's a war. You can word it differently like "prevent Ukrainian regular army from moving into the region and massacre it's own people" (who are rebels and thus mostly criminals). Basically Putin's point is that he wants to prevent blood shed that would happen had he not recognized rebel republics. It is kinda phony, but not as egregious as it may sound

It’s extremely egregious because this narrative that Ukraine wants to send in troops to the republic territories now to take the land back is completely false.

Ukraine has not made any moves to reclaim this territory since the Minsk Agreements.

Do you really think Ukraine would have been standing pat for years, but decided to get aggressive at the same moment that Russia amassed 150,000 troops on its border? This entire narrative of stopping a genocide from happening is exactly the “false flag” narrative that’s been warned about.


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[TherapyforGlencross]

Putin addressing the Russian nation at 1pm EST/11am MT

[JoseCuervo]

Putin addressing the Russian people in 20 minutes. Sounds like it is the sort of speech given as the bombs start to fall.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by JoseCuervo

Putin addressing the Russian people in 20 minutes. Sounds like it is the sort of speech given as the bombs start to fall.

Dunno about bombs. But both Russian currency and Russian stocks plummeted.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Dunno about bombs. But both Russian currency and Russian stocks plummeted.

Well....I suppose its fortuitous then that War tends to be good for Business.

[Pointman]

Putin's speech is delayed apparently. TV still says it's "coming soon"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Putin's speech is delayed apparently. TV still says it's "coming soon"

Is there a link to an English translation? This might be some 'must see TV.'

[Pointman]

While there's still no speech yet, Kremlin site posted that Putin is to recognize republics "soon" and allegedly has told so to France and Germany

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is there a link to an English translation? This might be some 'must see TV.'

I can't find any yet. Here's Putin's propaganda channel in English. I'm not sure if they will broadcast live though

https://www.rt.com/on-air/

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I can't find any yet. Here's Putin's propaganda channel in English. I'm not sure if they will broadcast live though

https://www.rt.com/on-air/

He has his own Propaganda channel? Of course he does.

I gotta get me one of those.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Locke

He has his own Propaganda channel? Of course he does.

I gotta get me one of those.

His one is so cheap you sure could afford one as well.

With no speech yet, the text ribbon reads about how Russia was doing anything possible for a peaceful solution, yet Kiev is constantly shelling rebels forcing civilians to flee.

Makes me wonder what takes so long. Frankly I haven't been this worried in my adult life.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Pointman

His one is so cheap you sure could afford one as well.

With no speech yet, the text ribbon reads about how Russia was doing anything possible for a peaceful solution, yet Kiev is constantly shelling rebels forcing civilians to flee.

Makes me wonder what takes so long. Frankly I haven't been this worried in my adult life.

Hasn't it already come out that he's declaring independence of the two rebel controlled areas of Ukraine? Or do you think he'll take the next step and also decide to send in the military/invade?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Pointman

His one is so cheap you sure could afford one as well.

With no speech yet, the text ribbon reads about how Russia was doing anything possible for a peaceful solution, yet Kiev is constantly shelling rebels forcing civilians to flee.

Makes me wonder what takes so long. Frankly I haven't been this worried in my adult life.

the first salvo of any war is that of information.

each side is blaming the other for the shelling...

my intuition suggests that Ukraine would not be so idiotic to start a shooting war with russian backed rebels in territories that they ceded and, at least publicly, say they have no interest in reclaiming, with 100K russian troops poised on the eastern borders

meanwhile it certainly provides cover for a russian invasion to 'support' the rebels they have been backing.

not sure what the logic is for Kyiv to be the ones instigate the fighting however...maybe you can provide a view from that side of things...

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I don't get it either. Unlike USSR, modern Russia isn't really much different from USA.

Well except if you're gay, or openly critique the government

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the first salvo of any war is that of information.

each side is blaming the other for the shelling...

my intuition suggests that Ukraine would not be so idiotic to start a shooting war with russian backed rebels in territories that they ceded and, at least publicly, say they have no interest in reclaiming, with 100K russian troops poised on the eastern borders

meanwhile it certainly provides cover for a russian invasion to 'support' the rebels they have been backing.

not sure what the logic is for Kyiv to be the ones instigate the fighting however...maybe you can provide a view from that side of things...

There's very little. The only thing I can think of is that since Ukrainians are expecting invasion, it would makes military sense for them to destroy infrastructure in rebels lands so to make invasion a bit harder. Still not very convincing. However, in Georgia Saakashvili actually did attack with Russian soldiers standing by, and got swept right after. Still not convincing though.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Hasn't it already come out that he's declaring independence of the two rebel controlled areas of Ukraine? Or do you think he'll take the next step and also decide to send in the military/invade?

Yup, I expected something on military front. Like putting troops into republics to protect it, invading Ukraine altogether, standing still and being ready to intervene if Ukraine attacks... Some clarity on military part.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Pointman

There's very little. The only thing I can think of is that since Ukrainians are expecting invasion, it would makes military sense for them to destroy infrastructure in rebels lands so to make invasion a bit harder. Still not very convincing. However, in Georgia Saakashvili actually did attack with Russian soldiers standing by, and got swept right after. Still not convincing though.

I am still hoping for a peaceful resolution.

However, I can't say I really understand why this is happening now, as it feels like how a frog is slowly boiled...it seemed like this recently spiked, though things have been building up over the course of time.

In this day and age, its not a proxy war...having the major super powers sniping at one another can't end well for anyone.

There needs to be some kind of de-escalation...and even then, based on my interpretation of Putin's history lesson on Ukraine, it seems like the end goal for him is having Ukraine back as a part of Russia - which would be a non-starter for the western countries.