Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If it's the latter, then why bring race into it? It doesn't matter what color someone is, if they charge police with a weapon and non-lethal methods don't work, they're getting shot every single time

You’re talking about the seconds that led up to the incident. From what I can tell, Walcott is talking about the minutes, months, and years.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If it's the latter, then why bring race into it? It doesn't matter what color someone is, if they charge police with a weapon and non-lethal methods don't work, they're getting shot every single time

That I don’t know for sure. Black people are less likely to use mental health services when needed. If we could change that we’d see less incidents like this one.

https://www.mentalhealthcommission.c...nities_eng.pdf

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re talking about the seconds that led up to the incident. From what I can tell, Walcott is talking about the minutes, months, and years.

There was nothing racist about this particular incident though. I'm all for reforming police forces to be less racist, god knows they need it, but it serves no purpose to throw that term around anytime someone of color gets shot regardless of circumstance

This applies to the media as well, who seem to only want to fan the Flames. The headline should read "Man with weapon shot by police", not "Black man shot by cops"

[Ducay]

People also forget the real consequences that police face with their own mental health after shootings like this. Hopefully they can get the support they need. Big thanks to the CPS for laying it on the line in situations like this that very clearly could have had worse outcomes.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

There was nothing racist about this particular incident though. I'm all for reforming police forces to be less racist, god knows they need it, but it serves no purpose to throw that term around anytime someone of color gets shot regardless of circumstance

This applies to the media as well, who seem to only want to fan the Flames. The headline should read "Man with weapon shot by police", not "Black man shot by cops"

I agree with your second point.

To your first though, you’re not really looking at the entire picture, and I think that’s what Walcott is referring to. When Walcott says we need to transform our systems, do you think he’s talking about transforming the act of shooting someone charging with a knife? Of course not. He’s talking about mental health, crisis response, everything. Race plays a factor just on the basis that people of colour are more likely to end up in these situations and more likely to meet these ends.

Anti-racist isn’t just “not being racist.” He’s not accusing the police of that. It goes well beyond it. Just as it would be unfair and possibly wrong to call the cops racist, it would be unfair and possibly wrong to say the man’s race had nothing to do with this.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I agree with your second point.

To your first though, you’re not really looking at the entire picture, and I think that’s what Walcott is referring to. When Walcott says we need to transform our systems, do you think he’s talking about transforming the act of shooting someone charging with a knife? Of course not. He’s talking about mental health, crisis response, everything. Race plays a factor just on the basis that people of colour are more likely to end up in these situations and more likely to meet these ends.

Anti-racist isn’t just “not being racist.” He’s not accusing the police of that. It goes well beyond it. Just as it would be unfair and possibly wrong to call the cops racist, it would be unfair and possibly wrong to say the man’s race had nothing to do with this.

He could be discussing the events leading up to it. I do think he is trying to elicit a certain response though based on the language used. I certainly agree there needs to be more to help on mental health. Just seems a weird approach.

[metallicat]

I’ve been saying it for a long time, our mental health system is broken. We need to be spending WAY more money to help kids and families that are going through tough times. Todays problems are yesterdays kids that grew up in bad homes without loving families and without the supports needed to thrive. Far more money needs to be spent preventing problems. It’s going to take an absolutely massive investment.

But none of that matters today for this guy. He went at police with a sword, a knife, and a metal pole. Once the police get involved in something like this then it’s far too late for this guy. He aggressed at police and a police dog with deadly weapons and Calgary’s less lethal options didn’t work. They held out as long as possible and lethal force was the only alternative.

[Flames_Gimp]

Recently required cps and the officer was absolutely awesome and went way out of his way to help us. There's a lot of good officers in our city imo

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by metallicat

I’ve been saying it for a long time, our mental health system is broken. We need to be spending WAY more money to help kids and families that are going through tough times. Todays problems are yesterdays kids that grew up in bad homes without loving families and without the supports needed to thrive. Far more money needs to be spent preventing problems. It’s going to take an absolutely massive investment.

But none of that matters today for this guy. He went at police with a sword, a knife, and a metal pole. Once the police get involved in something like this then it’s far too late for this guy. He aggressed at police and a police dog with deadly weapons and Calgary’s less lethal options didn’t work. They held out as long as possible and lethal force was the only alternative.

Yeah, sure, the mental health system is broken, I don’t think there can be any doubt about that.

For me it always gets back to personal responsibility. Decisions are made by all of us every single moment of every day we’re alive. The vast majority of those decisions are completely innocuous. Some decisions, however, are critical. If you charge police officers holding a deadly weapon, you’ve made a decision. Consequences sometimes follow decisions.

I grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic POS of a father. I refused to let it define me and have any say in how the rest of my life went. I have been fairly successful and have been happily married for 21 years. That’s because I consciously tried to make good decisions as often as possible.

Point being, it’s unequivocal for me. Make poor choices and you might have to pay for it.

[8 Ball]

Hopefully the investigation into this situation is very transparent. My buddy was apparently acquainted with the fellow who was shot to death by the police in a hotel room off 16th ave. It never should of happened. Mental crisis met with lethal force…

[jayswin]

nm

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Yeah, sure, the mental health system is broken, I don’t think there can be any doubt about that.

For me it always gets back to personal responsibility. Decisions are made by all of us every single moment of every day we’re alive. The vast majority of those decisions are completely innocuous. Some decisions, however, are critical. If you charge police officers holding a deadly weapon, you’ve made a decision. Consequences sometimes follow decisions.

I grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic POS of a father. I refused to let it define me and have any say in how the rest of my life went. I have been fairly successful and have been happily married for 21 years. That’s because I consciously tried to make good decisions as often as possible.

Point being, it’s unequivocal for me. Make poor choices and you might have to pay for it.

That's really cool that you succeeded that way after that level of abuse, but it's important to note that people who overcome mental illness/abuse etc to succeed often have the least relevant feelings towards mental illness/abuse topics on what needs to be done and what someone's "responsibility" is when they are often not in any position to be responsible for themselves.

As part of that success is typically a (very well deserved) feeling that anything can be overcome and that every action and feeling is of your own control and making. That is categorically false when it comes to abuse/mental illness in many cases.

But again, that is not a catty remark, just fact from working with people in the industry. It's always amazing to hear when people like yourself are able to overcome major obstacles in life, and I really commend you.

But your life, your obstacles and your path is not someone else's life, obstacles and path.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Hopefully the investigation into this situation is very transparent. My buddy was apparently acquainted with the fellow who was shot to death by the police in a hotel room off 16th ave. It never should of happened. Mental crisis met with lethal force…

I'm not entirely sure thats fair to place on the Police.

They are dealing with the situation put in front of them, usually with little to no background information and in the heat of the moment.

It sounds to me like they did what they had to do, when they had to do it.

We can lament that it came to this and we should strive for it not to happen, but unless some really egregious information is released, it seems like the responding officers were put into a no-win scenario and acted appropriately.

I'll backtrack that statement should the information warrant it, but if someone is rushing you with a weapon and you've tried the non-lethal approach and you're running out of options?

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That's really cool that you succeeded that way after that level of abuse, but it's important to note that people who overcome mental illness/abuse etc to succeed often have the least relevant feelings towards mental illness/abuse topics on what needs to be done and what someone's "responsibility" is when they are often not in any position to be responsible for themselves.

As part of that success is typically a (very well deserved) feeling that anything can be overcome and that every action and feeling is of your own control and making. That is categorically false when it comes to abuse/mental illness in many cases.

But again, that is not a catty remark, just fact from working with people in the industry. It's always amazing to hear when people like yourself are able to overcome major obstacles in life, and I really commend you.

But your life, your obstacles and your path is not someone else's life, obstacles and path.

I get it, my experience is not the same as anyone else’s probably. So I shouldn’t make blanket statements. Got it.
Thanks for the kind words.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

Yeah, sure, the mental health system is broken, I don’t think there can be any doubt about that.

For me it always gets back to personal responsibility. Decisions are made by all of us every single moment of every day we’re alive. The vast majority of those decisions are completely innocuous. Some decisions, however, are critical. If you charge police officers holding a deadly weapon, you’ve made a decision. Consequences sometimes follow decisions.

I grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic POS of a father. I refused to let it define me and have any say in how the rest of my life went. I have been fairly successful and have been happily married for 21 years. That’s because I consciously tried to make good decisions as often as possible.

Point being, it’s unequivocal for me. Make poor choices and you might have to pay for it.

You are fortunate enough to have the mental fortitude to overcome that, and seriously that’s really good for you. I came from a similar background, and I too have succeeded in some regards. It really smashed my oldest sister though. I don’t know if it was always trying to protect us, or what… but I know what a mental breakdown looks like. It’s having my niece/ her daughter pinning her to the ground while dialing 911

My point is, sometimes people snap, if you have weapons and run at the police smashing a K9 dog, you want to die. I don’t really believe race plays much of a part in this situation

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Mightyfire89

I get it, my experience is not the same as anyone else’s probably. So I shouldn’t make blanket statements. Got it.
Thanks for the kind words.

For sure, I chose my words carefully, and rewrote them. It's honestly amazing when people like yourself are able to overcome and live successful lives. You should be very proud of yourself.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not entirely sure thats fair to place on the Police.

They are dealing with the situation put in front of them, usually with little to no background information and in the heat of the moment.

It sounds to me like they did what they had to do, when they had to do it.

We can lament that it came to this and we should strive for it not to happen, but unless some really egregious information is released, it seems like the responding officers were put into a no-win scenario and acted appropriately.

I'll backtrack that statement should the information warrant it, but if someone is rushing you with a weapon and you've tried the non-lethal approach and you're running out of options?

yup, An officer charged by someone with a weapon has seconds to determine the level of force to use and there's no time to negotiate with someone actively trying to inflict grievous injury or death upon them, at that point lethal force becomes the only option.

It's tragic and sad that the deceased didn't get the help they needed before it came to this. And it most likely could have been preventable.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

You are fortunate enough to have the mental fortitude to overcome that, and seriously that’s really good for you. I came from a similar background, and I too have succeeded in some regards. It really smashed my oldest sister though. I don’t know if it was always trying to protect us, or what… but I know what a mental breakdown looks like. It’s having my niece/ her daughter pinning her to the ground while dialing 911.

Yeah, trust me, I know those kind of moments.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not entirely sure thats fair to place on the Police.

They are dealing with the situation put in front of them, usually with little to no background information and in the heat of the moment.

It sounds to me like they did what they had to do, when they had to do it.

We can lament that it came to this and we should strive for it not to happen, but unless some really egregious information is released, it seems like the responding officers were put into a no-win scenario and acted appropriately.

I'll backtrack that statement should the information warrant it, but if someone is rushing you with a weapon and you've tried the non-lethal approach and you're running out of options?

I agree it’s a tough job. Look at the Anthony Hefferman case though

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I agree with your second point.

To your first though, you’re not really looking at the entire picture, and I think that’s what Walcott is referring to. When Walcott says we need to transform our systems, do you think he’s talking about transforming the act of shooting someone charging with a knife? Of course not. He’s talking about mental health, crisis response, everything. Race plays a factor just on the basis that people of colour are more likely to end up in these situations and more likely to meet these ends.

Anti-racist isn’t just “not being racist.” He’s not accusing the police of that. It goes well beyond it. Just as it would be unfair and possibly wrong to call the cops racist, it would be unfair and possibly wrong to say the man’s race had nothing to do with this.

My main issue with Walcott is that he's grandstanding, and not being careful with his wording. He piggy-backed on an article titled "Black man shot by police" and used the term anti-racist. Sure he may be referring to the bigger picture, but he doesn't know the whole picture. We don't know this man's history or what set him off, it's all speculation at this point. And the cops sure as hell didn't have any background information when they had to decide to use lethal force. Walcott is coming across as an attention whore more than a concerned councilor, if mental health is truly his concern then push for reform during council meetings where it might actually make a difference. Don't tag an inflammatory headlined article on Twitter just to grab some likes