the craziness of youth sports these days

[you&me]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

The notion of buying your way to your kids success is a fascinating topic to me, and I'm glad the discussion is not just limited to sports (although that's probably the best example since the payday can mean millions of dollars if you're a professional athlete).

And while as a kid it's fun to have dreams and there's nothing wrong with that, parents should also realize that there is probably a point where you hit diminishing returns (i.e. cost of private coaches, tutors etc) -- little Timmy is probably not going to make the NHL no matter how much you spend.

There are varying degrees of practicality when it comes to the pursuits parents choose for their kids. A distinction should be made between giving your kids exposure to useful activities and throwing good money after bad chasing a dream.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by blankall

I wonder if this is just backlog from babyboomers not retiring? And maybe things will just start to open up again in the next 5-10 years, when they eventually do retire.

Whatever, the cause the lack of positions and the downplaying of marks has created an absolute mess for kids these days. There's no room for a normal middle class child who gets straight As.

My daughter is six months old. I guess I had better start building her resume? What insanity.

Yes, get her volunteering when she can walk! Make sure she is the leader of her daycare class!

But no I don't think it will improve, it'll get worse. There are far more post-secondary school graduates than there ever were boomers. There aren't really many boomers in the work force anymore. The youngest baby bomber was born is 1965 and is 57 today. And by 57, you'd think they'd be in higher positions than entry level which is where the real bottleneck is.

You look at boomers, mostly men worked at the beginning of their careers, women might have gotten in later on. And out of the men the white collar blue collar split was much closer to 50/50 than it is now. Would be interesting to poll CPers to see if their parents were white collar or blue collar.

But now, everyone's trying to get a post-secondary education, which is great, but it will saturate the one market over the other.

[FlamesAddiction]

Last summer we signed our kid up for tennis. It was one day a week through the community center. She was lucky she got a spot because a lot of her friend's parent tried and couldn't get in. Then we found out that some kids were signed up for multiple days and going every day.

The community center had to change the sign-up process because the intent was supposed to be just a cheap introductory to the sport for as many kids as possible with one kid and one time slot, but people took advantage of it.

Maybe more of a gear grinder, but somewhat related to this topic I guess.

[Titan2]

[Maritime Q-Scout]

For all of us with kids...

Don't focus on your kids making it to the pros, or even if they're the best on the ice/field/pitch/etc

The two things that we all should be focusing on:

(1) Are they having fun; and
(2) Are they improving?

My little guy is in learn to skate. If you were to rank all the kids on the ice on their ability to skate, he's likely the furthest from the top.

But he has an absolute blast skating. I asked him after one lesson "Are you a good skater?" and he replied "Yes, I'm an awesome skater, but Gemma is better, she can stand up". Poor guy couldn't stand on his skates.

Then he could stand up on his stakes.

Now he can get up on his own when he falls.

Sure he might not be the best on the ice, but you know what? He has fun, and I say this as impartially as I can, he with out a doubt improved the most out of anyone on the ice from the start of the program.

And that's the key. Whether it's our kids in sports, or even us adults in our work lives, relationships or discussions on internet message boards... as long as we're improving, even if a little bit, day to day, week to week, we're getting better and that's what matters.

When we left the rink last night my little guy said to me "I'm getting better and better everyday!" He is. He was so happy and proud.

Is he good enough to play in the NHL? Not at the moment. Even the worst NHLer will skate circles around him. Will he be good enough to play in the NHL in 15 years? Maybe? Probably not. But really we need to be judging our kids (and ourselves) based on improvement as opposed to what everyone else is doing.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by blankall

Yes there are debate clubs that offer private coaching and torturing and will get your kids into international debate competitions. It's been going on since at least I was in junior high, thirty years ago.

https://fdtacademy.com/debate/

https://vancouverdebate.ca/class-structure-curriculum/

It's actually a big thing. Crazy expensive. You have to pay for the coaching. Then you have to pay for the trips to debates where you win resume padding awards. At one point this was how you got into Ivy League schools, but I think that are mostly wise to this now, and it's become more if a scam to take advantage of parents with too much money.


I don't think it's off topic as it directly relates to the urge if parents to see their kids succeed in extra curricular activities.

It’s a bit excessive to pay for private torturing.

[Doctorfever]

I have kids in sports, and have tried / failed / succeeded at many different sports and activities with them.

My advice would be to let them try different things. They will find a sport or activity that they enjoy. Whether they are really good at it or not isn’t as important as if they enjoy it.

A lot of the craziness comes from pressure from peers (yours, not theirs) and sometimes pressure from extended family.

It is important to remember one thing, let them be kids. They only get one chance to be a five year old, a nine year old, a 13 year old. Try not to give in to the outside pressure that they need this and that to succeed.

Also enjoy the time you get to spend with them in vehicles to and from sports. We have some of our best conversations then.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by troutman

My niece was in synchro swimming. I never saw a sport that required as much $ and fundraising. Constant pressure.

What's everyone's thoughts on fundraising? My kids have played on 2 soccer clubs and a travel baseball academy. One of the soccer clubs did no fundraising, was a little bigger and had great facilities. The other soccer club had 2 bingo nights weekly all year and we were required to work 2 a year. Baseball was a lot of ad-hoc fundraising the parents wanted to do to reduce tournament fees and do things like fund a trip to the cooperstown Tournament.

All the fundraising felt a little icky to me. The soccer bingo was probably the toughest to swallow. It's a club that mostly draws from upper middle class families and we have these Bingos where we go basically take money from these lower income families who spend all their money on bingo and pull tabs to fund our kids soccer.

The baseball fundraisers all revolved around selling stupid crap to families and neighbors to raise money to offset our kids fees. This felt more awkward and cringy to me, (if we really want our kids doing these things, we should pay for it), but not as morally troubling. I usually just bought some of the stuff myself , so I wasn't last on the list of fundraising, but there was some pressure since we all shared the benefit equally.

I imagine at one point in time, fundraisers were about kids being able to put some work into helping contribute to funding their sports, but, it seems like it is all about parents doing the work now.

[TimSJ]

I hate the fundraising.

I don't want to sell chocolate bars or tickets on a basket of gift cards.

I hate asking people to support my upper middle class kids to go away for a weekend of hockey, baseball, dance whatever it is. I sign them up based on the fact that i can afford the program the team is running.

Now if they want to raise money for a program like jumpstart or we have a local organization called ProKids that helps to pay for low income family's registration fees i'm all for it.

My sons hockey team did a bottle drive for the local teen resource center earlier this fall. Kids had a ball, learned about their programs. it was great. way better than the $1000 they raised going towards some new sweatshirts or hats for the team.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

When I was a kid, we had to sell tickets for minor hockey. We were fortunate to be in a place where my folks just bought all the tickets they had to sell.

Since my time playing but many moons ago, one of the local hockey associations' 50/50 tickets really took off. They're in businesses, in addition to players selling them. They routinely go for a couple thousand a week. At Christmas the jackpot his 6 figures. Needless to say, hockey isn't expensive in Glace Bay.

The other associations do well on their 50/50 tickets, not Glace Bay level but still.

To my knowledge there aren't any bingo nights or anything like that (the casino really ended those due to the demographic that goes to bingo night started going to the casino itself).

I personally hate asking for money. When my little guy has to sell tickets, we offer to the grandparents, and then buy the rest ourselves.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just ti throw in my two cents.


I've been coaching amateur football now for about 15 years.


I spent 4 years coaching at high school. 3 years coaching woman's tackle football, and 7 years coaching Bantam and spring ball. I've been a LB coach, a D line coach, an Oline coach, a defensive Coordinator, a QB coach and an Offensive Coordinator coach. Most of my time has honestly been at a coordinator level.



I take a lot of yearly courses and certifications at my own cost.



There's a few things that do drive me crazy.


I mean honestly I can split up parents into almost three camps. There are some great parents who look at organized sports as an outlet for their kids. They want them to be part of a team or the social aspect. Help their kids find things they're passionate about, or even get some benefits of fitness and fairplay and work ethic.


There are parents who live vicariously through their kids experience. The Dad that never felt that he got a fair shake in sports, but thinks his son is 10x better then he ever was and he becomes his kids biggest supporter and complainer. My son isn't getting enough field time. Or you should design plays specifically to get the ball into his hands. Or I saw him open and the QB didn't throw him the ball, you should change that. Sometimes two things happen. The player is embarressed by his dad. Or his Dad gives him his own coaching outside of the program and tells him that he's a thousand times better then any other player. The Kid then becomes entitled, and impossible to deal with. (BTW as soon as a kid tells me that his dad taught him to do him this way, I have to remind the kid and the dad that things here happen my way by my design.)


There are parents that have unrealistic expectations for their kids and drive their kids relentlessly, they drag him to camps. Set a college track for the kid, I've had parents that tell me that their kid has been scouted by US college teams since the kid was 12.


So far in my 12 year career I've had about 10 kids that have gone on to College Ball. What the parent sometimes doesn't realize is that the invitation to play for a College team is no guarantee of anything. I've had absolutely stellar running backs for example that went on to be absolutely elite in high school and they walk into that first camp at number 7 on the depth chart. and might not see the field for 2 years or ever.



Football is very much following the hockey path. There are football camps and schools springing up all over the place. I've tried to connect with as many of these coaches as possible just to chat about what they're trying to teach. Some are great, some are not so great. Parents really need to get feedback or read reviews or talk to players and coaches that have gone through these program before spending massive amounts of money on them.


On the other hand, and I will say this. There are some pretty bad coaches out there, even with certification requirements, they're not really vetting coaches that hard. I mean anyone can go and pass a course on ethical coaching, or heads up to prevent concussion etc. But theres no followup, Football Alberta really needs to have inspectors on the ground visiting practices and games.

[afc wimbledon]

The really sad thing is I have a foster kid who likes playing hockey but isnt good enough nor wants to do any of this, he just wants to play a bit of hockey and there is nothing for him, casual hockey for kids doesnt exist, its the full on team camps etc bull or nothing.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The really sad thing is I have a foster kid who likes playing hockey but isnt good enough nor wants to do any of this, he just wants to play a bit of hockey and there is nothing for him, casual hockey for kids doesnt exist, its the full on team camps etc bull or nothing.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure this is correct.

I think you live in the Lower Mainland.

I will use Calgary as an example. My boy is first year U18, he has always played Div 1 or Div 2 during minor hockey. The boy can play hockey, but it isn't his passion.

Part of the issue is he didn't get to play with buddies, they played Div 3 or 4 or 7.

He is playing Rec Hockey in Calgary, with his buddies. It isn't really a challenge for him, he averages 2-3 goals a game.

The are kids on his team that are in their 2nd year playing, it shows. But, they are getting better. my boy routinely has one of the "worst" players on the team on his line. Interestingly my boy likes playing with him, because while the boy isn't the strongest skater he has "hockey sense and wicked hands" (according to me boy).

Also the scheduling is wicked. No practices, games on the same days (Thurs & Sat).

Check out Rec Hockey in where you live, it is specifically designed for how you described your child.

Edit:

https://www.burnabyminor.com/recreational-c-hockey/

If Burnaby has this other associations will as well.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The really sad thing is I have a foster kid who likes playing hockey but isnt good enough nor wants to do any of this, he just wants to play a bit of hockey and there is nothing for him, casual hockey for kids doesnt exist, its the full on team camps etc bull or nothing.

We've lost unorganized sports. Just kids playing outside on public rinks or fields.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I mean honestly I can split up parents into almost three camps. There are some great parents who look at organized sports as an outlet for their kids. They want them to be part of a team or the social aspect. Help their kids find things they're passionate about, or even get some benefits of fitness and fairplay and work ethic.

This is where we are at. We just want to introduce her to things and if she likes it, we will invest more time and money into it.

With the tennis lessons through the community center, that is the whole reason why that program exists, but then you have parents taking it really serious. My kid was out there trying to play and socialize with the other kids, but the helicopter parents would be screaming at their kids to focus and not talk to the other kids. It was really kind of sad and pathetic. These are basically teenagers employed by the city to teach the kids some basics, not some professional tennis coaches that you pay a lot of money for.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I'm sorry but I'm not sure this is correct.

I think you live in the Lower Mainland.

I will use Calgary as an example. My boy is first year U18, he has always played Div 1 or Div 2 during minor hockey. The boy can play hockey, but it isn't his passion.

Part of the issue is he didn't get to play with buddies, they played Div 3 or 4 or 7.

He is playing Rec Hockey in Calgary, with his buddies. It isn't really a challenge for him, he averages 2-3 goals a game.

The are kids on his team that are in their 2nd year playing, it shows. But, they are getting better. my boy routinely has one of the "worst" players on the team on his line. Interestingly my boy likes playing with him, because while the boy isn't the strongest skater he has "hockey sense and wicked hands" (according to me boy).

Also the scheduling is wicked. No practices, games on the same days (Thurs & Sat).

Check out Rec Hockey in where you live, it is specifically designed for how you described your child.

Edit:

https://www.burnabyminor.com/recreational-c-hockey/

If Burnaby has this other associations will as well.

Oh we did check out Vancouver, like Burnaby he has to be a member in order to play drop in hockey, annual fees of 500 to 1000 a year right of the bat, that isnt casual, that isnt dropping in at the rink the way you can play drop in soccer, 4 bucks for the game

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh we did check out Vancouver, like Burnaby he has to be a member in order to play drop in hockey, annual fees of 500 to 1000 a year right of the bat, that isnt casual, that isnt dropping in at the rink the way you can play drop in soccer, 4 bucks for the game

I totally missed the gist of your post.

What I described is Beer League for Kids.

That being said a number of rec centres in Calgary used to do Youth Shinny, full gear. I don't know if that is still a thing during the pandemic.

That might be an option for your child.

[V]

We got a bunch of parents together and started up a little hockey thing where they play every Saturday morning on one of the parent's outdoor rinks. There's about 40 kids involved, and three different outdoor rinks. Zero dollars, low commitment, and the kids are pretty good. Not minor hockey good, but good enough.

We used to host it at the hockey rink in Spruce Grove, but with Covid we can't get in there, so we went to outdoor rinks. I'm not sure we'll ever go back.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Are you a good skater?" and he replied "Yes, I'm an awesome skater, but Gemma is better, she can stand up".


"I'm getting better and better everyday!" He is. He was so happy and proud.

Quoted for these lines. Kids are awesome when we let them be.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We've lost unorganized sports. Just kids playing outside on public rinks or fields.

Pretty much. I live next to a soccer field and I never see kids playing unsupervised without adults. And that’s not hyperbole - I’ve seen it zero times in 10 years.