Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I agree with this. Yet player agents and team executives have consistently referred to tax issues as a detriment for Canadian franchises. At least the perception is out there.


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Yeah, despite views to the contrary here, I don’t think a lot of agents and for sure a lot of players are really that sophisticated WRT taxes. Plus, a lot of the better tax schemes bury the cash for decades and players want their money now.

[dissentowner]

It is so strange that there seems to be posters that you can tell want to see Gaudreau leave as a UFA just so they can enjoy the disappointment of others more than the Flames locking up their star player. Like it is just weird.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is so strange that there seems to be posters that you can tell want to see Gaudreau leave as a UFA just so they can enjoy the disappointment of others more than the Flames locking up their star player. Like it is just weird.

Which posters?

I think you may be projecting.

I don't think any real Flames fan wants him to leave for nothing as a UFA. Maybe just the odd one here or there that don't think he will be worth an AAV as high as he will likely receive.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Which posters?

I think you may be projecting.

I don't think any real Flames fan wants him to leave for nothing as a UFA. Maybe just the odd one here or there that don't think he will be worth an AAV as high as he will likely receive.

If you asked me at the beginning of the year when people were saying max term and $9 million per year, I was pretty apprehensive. After this season so far, I would drive the Brinks truck up to his house easily.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If the number was right - yes, of course he would have signed. But it would likely have been a number that wouldn't have fit with the point you are trying to manufacture.



LOL

Yeah, you're the only one. Not even the player and the agent were as smart as you. How on earth are you not on an NHL payroll?

First off, you don’t even know the number that I had in mind.

Secondly, what kind of contract do you think a player like Mangiapane, a former #166th overall pick with 122 games and 45 points over 3 seasons (at the time) would’ve garnered? It certainly wouldn’t have been a number that would’ve broken the bank based on his career output and leverage at the time.

Now management is looking at a highly motivated player with more leverage than he’s ever had before, leading the team in goals and on pace for 42 goals this season. He is going to get paid big time.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

First off, you don’t even know the number that I had in mind.

Secondly, what kind of contract do you think a player like Mangiapane, a former #166th overall pick with 122 games and 45 points over 3 seasons (at the time) would’ve garnered? It certainly wouldn’t have been a number that would’ve broken the bank based on his career output and leverage at the time.

Now management is looking at a highly motivated player with more leverage than he’s ever had before, leading the team in goals and on pace for 42 goals this season. He is going to get paid big time.

Draft position is irrelevant for a 24 year old, signing their 3rd contract.

Second, he had just come off a one year deal at $715k that he appeared not at all happy with.

Third, he just had a breakout season with 32 points in 68 games, despite no power play time.

You are the one that continues to claim that he would have signed some team-friendly long term deal. So put your money where your mouth is, and tell us what you think he could have been signed for.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

With the extra year, plus going an extra $1M than anyone else on salary, it actually grosses him an extra $18.75M

7x$10.25 = $71.25M
8x10.25 = $82M
8x$11.25 = $90M

7x$10.75= $75.25M
8x$10.75 = $86M
8x$11.75 = $94M

That’s a reason to stay. That’s basically $20M extra - I don’t care how much I’d like to play in my home town, I don’t care what the tax rate is.

$20M is $20M.

So, they can keep him. They just have to give him better term and dollars.

How can Flames beat any other team by $1M annually? Couldn't we just as easily argue that another team beats flames best offer by $1M which kind of negates the advantage of the extra year.

IMO it still comes down to him wanting to play here. Which I kind of think he does.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How can Flames beat any other team by $1M annually? Couldn't we just as easily argue that another team beats flames best offer by $1M which kind of negates the advantage of the extra year.

IMO it still comes down to him wanting to play here. Which I kind of think he does.

My view is that Calgary would be an acceptable team for Johnny to sign with. But there are likely other acceptable teams.

Calgary will need to show him the money. And there is no particular reason why they shouldn't or wouldn't.

[Vinny01]

Treliving squeezed Johnny on the last deal. I am sure they were pushing for something closer to $8M. I still remember being letdown when Johnny finally signed because it was only for 6 years. Having said that until recently I have always thought he would want to head back east after this deal was up. Based on what he has said, and what his family said I think there is a really good chance he signs here long term.


It is his turn to squeeze the Flames so he should be pushing for max term, full NMC, $10MAAV at least, with the best bonus and impossible to buyout structure.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

My view is that Calgary would be an acceptable team for Johnny to sign with. But there are likely other acceptable teams.

Calgary will need to show him the money. And there is no particular reason why they shouldn't or wouldn't.

Whichever team Gaudreau signs with is going to have to show him the money.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Whichever team Gaudreau signs with is going to have to show him the money.

The point a number of us have been making is simply that he won’t sign here for less.

[dustygoon]

A slight detour but i think is relevant here....anyone see theAthletic article saying underlying numbers suggest Kylington could be considered an $8mm defensemen?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

A slight detour but i think is relevant here....anyone see theAthletic article saying underlying numbers suggest Kylington could be considered an $8mm defensemen?

Yes, if he was a UFA with more seasons showing this value behind him. He doesn't have that. I think he ends up around $4.5M

[Ashasx]

weird ####ing tweet from Lebrun

https://twitter.com/user/status/1491864432661741571

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

weird ####ing tweet from Lebrun

https://twitter.com/user/status/1491864432661741571

Piss off LeBrun! Johnny us not going to that tire fire in Montreal. He is ours!

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Piss off LeBrun! Johnny us not going to that tire fire in Montreal. He is ours!

Only way he'd go to Montreal is for insane money lol. Also weird connection that'd he sign there cause of St. Louis

[Manhattanboy]

Can't see Johnny on another team in Canada.

Is Marner's contract the benchmark for Johnny? What is Marner's salary?

[Vinny01]

Ya keep that thought to yourself Pierre. No way Johnny leaves here to go to Quebec

[MegaErtz]

Gaudreau grew up thirty-eight minutes from Philadelphia, so I don't think anyone would begrudge him for wanting to go home. Who knows what will happen? The one thing I don't want to happen is also the most likely, in that the Flames go out in the first or second round of the playoffs and he walks away for nothing.

[TheoFleury]

I think the only way Johnny stays is if the Flames can wrap their heads around 8x 11m. Full nmc and built around signing bonuses. Going to have to prove it to him that management believes in him and the only way to do that is to show him they believe he's just as valuable as Marner and Panarin.

He's worth 11m too imo. What he has done so far with mostly a rotating cast of linemates that were never true top line talent (until sutter) is astounding. This guy is every bit as talented as Kucherov in my mind. This contract would cement him as the greatest player in franchise history after all said and done, just my opinion

The main reason people worry about his future cap hit is the current cap situation we find ourselves in. Treliving can't let temporary issues like Monahan and lucic influence this decision

Gaudreau 8x 11m
Tkachuk 8x 9.5m

Might have to move Mangiapane but he has value. Only one year left with Monahan and lucic. There is more flexibility than most realize after next year (which is tight admittedly). Means going bridge with Kylington probably and trading Mangiapane for good value but that's the consequences of other decisions. What you can't do is let some eastern team beat your offer because you decided that 10m is the highest you can go. Realize you're just going to be forced to turn around and spend that money on middle of the lineup talent if you lose him and do whatever you can to prevent that at all costs.

I'd rather pay the elite guys what they are worth and build from there. If that means shopping in the discount bin to fill out depth, so be it. They will spend to the cap regardless. Pay the top 25 talent and figure out the rest later. The amateur scouting is top 10 at this point. Trade the guys you can't afford for some picks. Trust the scouts. Give them as many bullets as possible.

There have been so many positives this year... but none of them will matter if Johnny goes

Hanifin is top pairing suddenly
Andersson is superb second pairing but works with Hanifin (remember how bad he was last year)
Emergence of Kylington
Surprise of just how good tanev is
The bottom pair is surprisingly effective
Markstrom is really, really solid

The farm team is ripping it up. Lots to be excited about

Tkachuk on another level (without 13 he's likely more of a 65 point guy most years imo)

Lindholm as Johnny's C has been a revelation but he probably is a Backlund level player without him

Mangiapane busting out.

Some good stuff, more than I ever saw coming for sure. But let's be honest with ourselves... this team needs Johnny if the hope is becoming a consistent top 10 team. Without him, we don't have a true impact player... and that would be a total disaster

The goal is to win. We need Johnny to win. So open up the cheque book and blow him away. You can't have the worry of future cap space as the reason we let this guy go. That's insane. Find other ways to figure out the cap... there are quite a few places to do that... even with Johnny at 11m