the craziness of youth sports these days

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

High level soccer can be bad, although maybe not quite as bad as hockey. Tournaments in the U.S, Provincial teams in addition to club teams etc. But the money grab pressure is in every sport now.

Yes it can.

I coached Tier 1 Youth Soccer years ago and both the club and parents were talking about US College Scouts watching them play and the possibility of Scholarships, etc.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't think I've ever hated a sport as a parent as much as swim club!! The parents were fine, and I'm sure it is different here. But those swim meets that lasted 3-4 hours that we had to stand around for in 100 degree heat (parents can't in the pool) to watch our kids compete for about 3-4 minutes tops were awful memories! Not to mention every meet seemed to have a 1 hour lightning delay right before my kids were supposed to go. It was great for making them good swimmers though, so I don't regret it at all, but man that was a trying year!

yeah, we dont have outdoor swim meets haha

[blankall]

Now that grades have become meaningless, parents need to pay to make their child "well rounded". In 2004ish, when I was applying to professional schools the shift was starting to "character" and "well rounded" students, as marks were perceived to be too influenced by economic status.

In reality, the exact opposite was true. The kids who were stars in debate clubs, youth sports stars, or the arts, simply had parents who'd paid for their children to be in these activities at an elite level. None of the people I knew who became doctors, lawyers, dentists, or even teachers had any kind of elite talent in these fields. And participating in these activities didn't make them any better in their respective professions.

Yes, rich kids have an advantage in academics (tutors, schools, knowing their basic needs are taken care of...etc..) but it's not an insurmountable one like the focus on activities is. Especially in Canada, where there's no legit high school sports program, like the USA. This isn't a system where a talented and poor kid can show up and work his **** off and become a football star. In Canada, it's pay to play at the elite levels. You aren't becoming a star hockey player unless you have very involved and wealthy parents. The public high school sports system in Canada is almost non-existent.

If you want your kids to be successful, you need to pay for them to have elite level coaching at ages 12-16. With the focus off academics and standardized tests, there's no way around that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I have a two year old girl. What are the cheapest, most engaging, where the parents aren't crazy sports for her... that aren't soccer?

Karate is great. They get focused physical activity, coordination, discipline. Doesn’t cost much, and parents are only allowed to spectate during the belt tests and competitions, which are a couple times a year.

And it’s nice that it’s not age and gender specific. A 6 year old girl might be training and sparring with 8 year old boys and 9 year old girls. A 14 year old might lead a group of 6 to 50 year olds in their katas (cue Kramer jokes). Makes for a respectful and inclusive environment.

[chemgear]

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yes it can.

I coached Tier 1 Youth Soccer years ago and both the club and parents were talking about US College Scouts watching them play and the possibility of Scholarships, etc.

Would be interesting to compile a database and distribute it to parents to show them how few kids get U.S scholarships.

Elite female soccer players in Canada in big cities at least have a chance to get noticed and get a decent sized scholarship in the U.S (I stress "chance"), male players have close to a 0% chance of not only getting recruited, but seeing decent scholarship money as male soccer scholarship money is very very limited compared to female players, due to football and title IX which mandates money has to be equal between the sexes. The bigger hope for male soccer player in Canada would be getting into the Whitecaps, TFC or Cf Montreal youth academy system and obviously those odds are extremely low, too.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

THere are football clubs in Europe that 'pick up' children for their pre-Academies.

Like, this is nuts:

Four-year-old footballer scouted by Arsenal while still in nursery

I knew that existed, but that's definitely not a Canadian thing (although a few premier English, Spanish and Italian teams have satellite offices across Canada for youth programs).

Who knows how it all really goes unless you're on the inside.

If that kids 4 I'm a millionaire with a 12 inch....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Would be interesting to compile a database and distribute it to parents to show them how few kids get U.S scholarships.

Elite female soccer players in Canada in big cities at least have a chance to get noticed and get a decent sized scholarship in the U.S (I stress "chance"), male players have close to a 0% chance of not only getting recruited, but seeing decent scholarship money as male soccer scholarship money is very very limited compared to female players, due to football and title IX which mandates money has to be equal between the sexes. The bigger hope for male soccer player in Canada would be getting into the Whitecaps, TFC or Cf Montreal youth academy system and obviously those odds are extremely low, too.

My assistant coach at the time was a guy who played mid-level Pro in Colombia and often remarked that the North American model of sports training was backwards.

"If they scouted you and you were good they'd pay you to train...in North America everyone pays to train whether they're good enough or not..."

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Would be interesting to compile a database and distribute it to parents to show them how few kids get U.S scholarships.

Elite female soccer players in Canada in big cities at least have a chance to get noticed and get a decent sized scholarship in the U.S (I stress "chance"), male players have close to a 0% chance of not only getting recruited, but seeing decent scholarship money as male soccer scholarship money is very very limited compared to female players, due to football and title IX which mandates money has to be equal between the sexes. The bigger hope for male soccer player in Canada would be getting into the Whitecaps, TFC or Cf Montreal youth academy system and obviously those odds are extremely low, too.

You get a pretty good idea in an American city of the odds. I live in a city with metro area of about a million. We have 3-4 big soccer clubs. 2 of them filter into what was a US Dev Academy team. The clubs have an average of 3 teams per single age group by the time they are 11v11 in u13. So it's basically a DA team, 4 elite teams, and about 8-9 2nd/3rd level travel teams across the city.

The clubs all post their college commitments. Usually about half the starting lineup of the DA team gets a D1 scholarship, and 0-2 from the elite teams. So probably about 8-9 per year males get D1 scholarships, and probably 10-15 D2/D3 scholarships.

Basically, if you're not on the DA team, or the best player in your club, there's no real chance.

A lot of sports, it's all about genetics anyway. I didn't really realize until I started following baseball recruiting a bit, that every single RH pitching prospect to come out of here is at least 6'2. A kid who only projects to be 6' has no real chance of pitching in a D1 school.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by blankall

Now that grades have become meaningless, parents need to pay to make their child "well rounded". In 2004ish, when I was applying to professional schools the shift was starting to "character" and "well rounded" students, as marks were perceived to be too influenced by economic status.

In reality, the exact opposite was true. The kids who were stars in debate clubs, youth sports stars, or the arts, simply had parents who'd paid for their children to be in these activities at an elite level. None of the people I knew who became doctors, lawyers, dentists, or even teachers had any kind of elite talent in these fields. And participating in these activities didn't make them any better in their respective professions.

Yes, rich kids have an advantage in academics (tutors, schools, knowing their basic needs are taken care of...etc..) but it's not an insurmountable one like the focus on activities is. Especially in Canada, where there's no legit high school sports program, like the USA. This isn't a system where a talented and poor kid can show up and work his **** off and become a football star. In Canada, it's pay to play at the elite levels. You aren't becoming a star hockey player unless you have very involved and wealthy parents. The public high school sports system in Canada is almost non-existent.

If you want your kids to be successful, you need to pay for them to have elite level coaching at ages 12-16. With the focus off academics and standardized tests, there's no way around that.

In all seriousness, debate is fantastic.

Of those that I debated competitively with and against, I'd say 50% became lawyers. A girl I debated with through high school and university has several appearances before the Supreme Court of Canada.

Of those that didn't go the law route, it helped them in their respective fields. One guy who was a below average competitive debater won a ton of scholarship money in engineering because he could mop the floor with everyone there.

It also helps you understand both sides of an issue, and that disagreeing with someone doesn't make them evil. You'd be at each other's throats during the debate, and then get plastered with them afterwards.

By no means does debate = lawyer, doctor, engineer; but it certainly helps and gives a leg up.

Even if you don't travel, or go to the big competitions, it's still a really useful skill to develop.

That said, some of the best lawyers I know never debated competitively.

[Jason14h]

Maybe debate needs to be taught in schools so people can learn how to civilly look at both sides of an issues, properly research, and maybe actually learn from opposing view points.

Or we can just continue to calls people racists and commies when they disagree!

[Cappy]

I (childless) play hockey with a group of hockey dads (and some moms) and it amazes me the amount of time they spend talking about their kids' hockey. Like WTF? i know you have nothing better going on in your suburban life but to chat about little timmy's two point night in Novice house league, but jesus christ i do not care at all.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hockey seems to be overtly expensive, more than most, no?

I remember soccer being a relatively easy and low-barrier sport to play. And scouts would (apparently) show up in the stands here and there during some of the games. I never got a call back for anything but I don't recall my parents having to pay extra for things like skill development or combines.

I suspect these things are more sophisticated now and much more of a business.

Not necessarily. Elite hockey is more expensive, but our kids played community and most kids we knew in other sports (soccer, club volleyball, club basketball, dance, swimming) were paying more per year than we were. At the time hockey was working out to be about $15-20 per hour which was equivalent to what I pay for beer league, and on par with many other forms of entertainment.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

In all seriousness, debate is fantastic.

Of those that I debated competitively with and against, I'd say 50% became lawyers. A girl I debated with through high school and university has several appearances before the Supreme Court of Canada.

Of those that didn't go the law route, it helped them in their respective fields. One guy who was a below average competitive debater won a ton of scholarship money in engineering because he could mop the floor with everyone there.

It also helps you understand both sides of an issue, and that disagreeing with someone doesn't make them evil. You'd be at each other's throats during the debate, and then get plastered with them afterwards.

By no means does debate = lawyer, doctor, engineer; but it certainly helps and gives a leg up.

Even if you don't travel, or go to the big competitions, it's still a really useful skill to develop.

That said, some of the best lawyers I know never debated competitively.

Debate is one thing. I'm more talking about the private international debate clubs. These were ultra expensive and required the parent to fork over lots of cash for debate. Like other activities, there are levels that you can get to simply by having the parents show more interest in and pay for the activity.

Law school is actually one of the fields that rarely looks at entrance scholarships for admission (with the exception of UofT/UVic).

I don't disagree that those that show an aptitude/interest in something like debate would be interested in becoming a lawyer later.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I (childless) play hockey with a group of hockey dads (and some moms) and it amazes me the amount of time they spend talking about their kids' hockey. Like WTF? i know you have nothing better going on in your suburban life but to chat about little timmy's two point night in Novice house league, but jesus christ i do not care at all.

Nothing wrong with being proud of your kids.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

I posted this in the gear grinder but thought it might warrant its own thread for some discussion.

The amount of people and companies that will try and bleed as much money as possible out of you in youth sports these days.

The amount of showcases, scouting combines, spring hockey, winter baseball etc. It is getting ridiculous.

Had a baseball one this morning "xxxx would really like Will to attend the xxx Showcase later this month that i sent you after seeing him throw last night, they placed 9 of 18 seniors with scholarships last year from Atlantic Canada"

He's 13 in grade 8

no scout is looking at or cares about him.

The showcase is $275 for a couple of hours in the fieldhouse. Crazy.

its just constant and it doesn't matter what the sport is It is very easy to get sucked in to chase the dream

Just let them know that is too late for him. If he hasn’t been all in on baseball since 8 he won’t make it anywhere. Then follow that up asking if those 9 scholarships how many were books and tuition 100%? Truth be told there’s A LOT more money in it for the Junior College giving a 50% scholarship to an out of country student then 50% scholarship to in an in state kid.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by habernac

Nothing wrong with being proud of your kids.

Fair enough. Good for timmy.

I would say the majoirty of the conversations are usually ####ting on other people's kids. Oh i can't believe adam is still getting ice time!

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by blankall

Debate is one thing. I'm more talking about the private international debate clubs. These were ultra expensive and required the parent to fork over lots of cash for debate. Like other activities, there are levels that you can get to simply by having the parents show more interest in and pay for the activity.

Law school is actually one of the fields that rarely looks at entrance scholarships for admission (with the exception of UofT/UVic).

I don't disagree that those that show an aptitude/interest in something like debate would be interested in becoming a lawyer later.

Private debate clubs?

I honestly never heard of those. I didn't know they were a thing.

I'm not going to humble brag about my accomplishments/experience, but that is 100% news to me. Are they a new thing? Have they started up over the last 10-15 years? Not to derail I'm genuinely curious (DM me rather than keep this derailment going).

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Oooh good one. And it's indoors too.. bonus!

We did some gymnastics with my son before covid and he liked it. We are actually going again this weekend for another round of it. Check out the flip factory.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Private debate clubs?

I honestly never heard of those. I didn't know they were a thing.

I'm not going to humble brag about my accomplishments/experience, but that is 100% news to me. Are they a new thing? Have they started up over the last 10-15 years? Not to derail I'm genuinely curious (DM me rather than keep this derailment going).

Yes there are debate clubs that offer private coaching and torturing and will get your kids into international debate competitions. It's been going on since at least I was in junior high, thirty years ago.

https://fdtacademy.com/debate/

https://vancouverdebate.ca/class-structure-curriculum/

It's actually a big thing. Crazy expensive. You have to pay for the coaching. Then you have to pay for the trips to debates where you win resume padding awards. At one point this was how you got into Ivy League schools, but I think that are mostly wise to this now, and it's become more if a scam to take advantage of parents with too much money.


I don't think it's off topic as it directly relates to the urge if parents to see their kids succeed in extra curricular activities.