2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I cannot qoute the proposal but if Buffalo valued Krebs and Tuch highly than a quantity trade would never have beaten it. Quantity over quality pretty much always leaves the seller a loser. Obviously you can argue about the quality of prospects but we'll always overhype Flames prospects.

Yup and the only view that matters is how Buffalo rates those players compared to what they got from Vegas. And each team has their own book.

It could easily be:
Mangiapane - Undersized forward that rode a hot streak. Solid middle of the line-up forward but not a top line guy

Valimaki- Tracking to be a bust. Might be a final pairing guy at most.

Coronato - Good upside but years away. Ceiling is likely 2nd liner.

Zary - 2nd line ceiling. Lots to prove

Pelletier- late round pick. Slightly under-sized. Not huge skill levels. 3rd line upside.

Wolf - Undersized goalie that is unlikely to be a starter in the NHL. Might be a back-up
1st, ‘22
2nd, ‘23


If they view Krebs and Tuch as potential top of the line-up guys, then throwing a "bunch of stuff" at them doesn't matter.

It's the type of trade that works in fantasy hockey but has no basis in reality.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup and the only view that matters is how Buffalo rates those players compared to what they got from Vegas. And each team has their own book.

It could easily be:
Mangiapane - Undersized forward that rode a hot streak. Solid middle of the line-up forward but not a top line guy

Valimaki- Tracking to be a bust. Might be a final pairing guy at most.

Coronato - Good upside but years away. Ceiling is likely 2nd liner.

Zary - 2nd line ceiling. Lots to prove

Pelletier- late round pick. Slightly under-sized. Not huge skill levels. 3rd line upside.

Wolf - Undersized goalie that is unlikely to be a starter in the NHL. Might be a back-up
1st, ‘22
2nd, ‘23


If they view Krebs and Tuch as potential top of the line-up guys, then throwing a "bunch of stuff" at them doesn't matter.

It's the type of trade that works in fantasy hockey but has no basis in reality.

Those values look like something Lanny would come up with.

[AC]

Everyone knows you keep adding late round picks at that point until the computer accepts the trade.

[GioforPM]

I really think people underestimate the Tuch value. His points curve looks like Mangiapane’s, maybe better. Plus he’s bigger, faster, signed to a great contract and is from the area. The Flames really couldn’t replicate that player in the deal.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Those values look like something Lanny would come up with.

They aren't my views, just saying they are possible ones.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I really think people underestimate the Tuch value. His points curve looks like Mangiapane’s, maybe better. Plus he’s bigger, faster, signed to a great contract and is from the area. The Flames really couldn’t replicate that player in the deal.

I don’t see it the way you do

I see a guy who in his 5th season has already missed large chunks of 2 of those seasons to injury

1 season over 20 goals and 50pts.

He is signed to a fair deal but not sure it is the steal you are painting it to be. Do Buffalo fans care that a guy is from NY or do they want the best player?

He definitely has value but I think you overestimate how valuable he is. He was the best contract Vegas could throw in to the deal.

It is going to be like Sam Bennett around here with Eichel. The guys who didn’t want him or think no matter what the Flames could do know wrong will point it out sarcastically if he struggles and others who can’t let it go will post every time he has a multi point night. I hope it doesn’t go that way but I can easily see it

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I really think people underestimate the Tuch value. His points curve looks like Mangiapane’s, maybe better. Plus he’s bigger, faster, signed to a great contract and is from the area. The Flames really couldn’t replicate that player in the deal.

I also don't think the Flames had the appetite to trade a top 6 forward for a player that wasn't going to play for several months, and likely not at 100% until next season.

Vegas was underperforming at the time and had less to lose. On paper, they also had a team that was less reliant on one 2nd liner. We can argue who is a more valuable trade asset between Tuch and Mangiapane to a third party, but to their respect teams before the deal, Mangiapane was more important to the Flames success than Tuch was to Vegas's. Substitute any player from the Flames top 6, and the same applies.

I really don't think the Flames were offering any impact players up front.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t see it the way you do

I see a guy who in his 5th season has already missed large chunks of 2 of those seasons to injury

1 season over 20 goals and 50pts.

He is signed to a fair deal but not sure it is the steal you are painting it to be. Do Buffalo fans care that a guy is from NY or do they want the best player?

He definitely has value but I think you overestimate how valuable he is. He was the best contract Vegas could throw in to the deal.

It is going to be like Sam Bennett around here with Eichel. The guys who didn’t want him or think no matter what the Flames could do know wrong will point it out sarcastically if he struggles and others who can’t let it go will post every time he has a multi point night. I hope it doesn’t go that way but I can easily see it

It’s a steal of a contract, and yes, Buffalo has trouble retaining players so they wanted a guy with ties that would want to be there.

Any comparable or better player Calgary has has a contract issue, other than maybe Lindholm (and even his term is coming up).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I really think people underestimate the Tuch value. His points curve looks like Mangiapane’s, maybe better. Plus he’s bigger, faster, signed to a great contract and is from the area. The Flames really couldn’t replicate that player in the deal.

Was gonna post this...Tuch is PPG in Buffalo

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s a steal of a contract, and yes, Buffalo has trouble retaining players so they wanted a guy with ties that would want to be there.

Any comparable or better player Calgary has has a contract issue, other than maybe Lindholm (and even his term is coming up).

Buffalo wanted picks and prospects. Tuch isn’t comparable to Lindholm. One is a first line center while the other is a second line winger.

If Adams was prioritizing the 25 year old in that deal over the picks and prospects he is as dumb as I think. I get it that Krebs was the target and they loved him. I think Adam’s likely got goodwill with the power agent representing Eichel to move him to Vegas which was certainly a preferred destination.

I need to re-evaluate what a steal of a contract is I guess? 4.75M for a guy who have averaged 47pts a season and missed nearly 80 games over the last 4 years.

Backlund has been an a steal of a deal these past few years I suppose? Scored more and plays a more critical position.

Or maybe Tuch and Backlund are on fair deals and not a steal?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Buffalo wanted picks and prospects. Tuch isn’t comparable to Lindholm. One is a first line center while the other is a second line winger.

If Adams was prioritizing the 25 year old in that deal over the picks and prospects he is as dumb as I think. I get it that Krebs was the target and they loved him. I think Adam’s likely got goodwill with the power agent representing Eichel to move him to Vegas which was certainly a preferred destination.

I need to re-evaluate what a steal of a contract is I guess? 4.75M for a guy who have averaged 47pts a season and missed nearly 80 games over the last 4 years.

Backlund has been an a steal of a deal these past few years I suppose? Scored more and plays a more critical position.

Or maybe Tuch and Backlund are on fair deals and not a steal?

You can quibble about steal or not, but Tuch is on a contract better than any current Flame. His 80 games missed were 4, 8, 29 and 0 in the 4 years prior to the surgery this off-season. In a trade for a guy who has missed more games than that. This year? Yeah, he missed a bunch of games, and is PPG since coming back. And $4.75 is on the low end of what I see people suggesting for Mangiapane, who has similar career numbers.

BTW, Backlund has outperformed his contract if you look at his stats and his contract compared to other centres, BTW.

I’m not saying Tuch was more important than Krebs. But both were, IMO what Buffalo wanted and Tuch is someone the Flames couldn’t match contract wise.

[SuperMatt18]

From what's been rumored the contract was actually a big part of how highly they valued Tuch, they wanted a piece with term left.

From what I've heard Lindholm was kind of the equivalent piece from our side, and even he doesn't have that type of term left.

[robertsfanatic]

if we're going to lament trades that didn't happen, can it be the one that was actually agreed to and then Kadri nixed?

anyway, do you think we could get Connor Brown for a 2nd this year and a conditional future pick?

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup and the only view that matters is how Buffalo rates those players compared to what they got from Vegas. And each team has their own book.

It could easily be:
Mangiapane - Undersized forward that rode a hot streak. Solid middle of the line-up forward but not a top line guy

Valimaki- Tracking to be a bust. Might be a final pairing guy at most.

Coronato - Good upside but years away. Ceiling is likely 2nd liner.

Zary - 2nd line ceiling. Lots to prove

Pelletier- late round pick. Slightly under-sized. Not huge skill levels. 3rd line upside.

Wolf - Undersized goalie that is unlikely to be a starter in the NHL. Might be a back-up
1st, ‘22
2nd, ‘23


If they view Krebs and Tuch as potential top of the line-up guys, then throwing a "bunch of stuff" at them doesn't matter.

It's the type of trade that works in fantasy hockey but has no basis in reality.

Yikes. That's a pretty pessimistic view of our prospects.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

if we're going to lament trades that didn't happen, can it be the one that was actually agreed to and then Kadri nixed?

anyway, do you think we could get Connor Brown for a 2nd this year and a conditional future pick?

I feel like a 2nd + Poirier might be realistic? I might be off, but that seems like decent value.

I think he would be a great addition

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Yikes. That's a pretty pessimistic view of our prospects.

Realistic though, most good prospects just don't turn out

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You can quibble about steal or not, but Tuch is on a contract better than any current Flame.

I would take Anderson and his contract over Tuch all day long

Top pairing D > second line forward.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Dude Where's Makar?

I feel like a 2nd + Poirier might be realistic? I might be off, but that seems like decent value.

I think he would be a great addition

you might be right and he is signed for another year at $3.6M so might be worth the cost.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Yikes. That's a pretty pessimistic view of our prospects.

For the trillionth time [to you and others] - it's not about what we think, it's about what BUF thought.


We can say whatever we want about Tuch's numbers, but we should also acknowledge that he was a little bit buried in VGK, typically playing on the 3rd line for the last two seasons with guys like Glass, Roy, Nosek, and Carrier. And still put up 16EVG / 29EVP in 55gp.

And he's 6'4 220ish lbs.

BUF may have been irrationally keen on him, but so far so good.


Same deal with Krebs...I don't have a strong opinion on him, but he's from the same draft as Dach, Turcotte, Cozens, Newhook, McMichael, Tomasino, (Pelletier)...lots of highly regarded C prospects that haven't done much of anything yet. Zegras and Hughes have only just emerged from this season.

Whether they are right or not doesn't matter, BUF may have felt that Krebs has a ton more upside than Pelletier/Zary and fits into what they want to build.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would take Anderson and his contract over Tuch all day long

Top pairing D > second line forward.

Then be glad we didn't trade Andersson because he almost certainly would have been in any deal for Eichel.