Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

They probably are giving orders to sign him, he is a merchandise cash cow as well.

The amount teams make from selling merchandise of a particular player is likely peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

If ownership is telling Treliving to sign him, and Johnny wants to stay and sign, one would think he'd be signed by now, unless they still haven't agreed to a term and AAV.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Remember when Gaudreau wasn't on that top 100 NHL players list in the offseason?

I also remember posters here saying that Konecny was worth more than Gaudreau in a trade like he was somehow a better player.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I also remember posters here saying that Konecny was worth more than Gaudreau in a trade like he was somehow a better player.

At that time he was likely close to a comparable player, but with a better contract and term. I'm not sure many thought he was the better player, although at that time it was close

Boy, how much has changed since then. Johnny has taken his game to another level. A level Konecny will never see.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

At that time he was likely close to a comparable player, but with a better contract and term. I'm not sure many thought he was the better player, although at that time it was close

Boy, how much has changed since then. Johnny has taken his game to another level. A level Konecny will never see.

Gaudreau was always the better player. Konecny is not an elite player and Gaudreau has been virtually a ppg player his entire career which is elite. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Gaudreau was always the better player. Konecny is not an elite player and Gaudreau has been virtually a ppg player his entire career which is elite. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

But at the time Johnny seemed to be regressing while Konecny actually scored more goals and points that year, was 4 years younger and had a better AAV and more term. To the extent that Johnny was a better player, the age difference and contract may have levelled the trade value.

Now hindsight has proven that a terrible take, but it wasn't as outrageous at the time as you seem to think.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But at the time Johnny seemed to be regressing while Konecny actually scored more goals and points that year, was 4 years younger and had a better AAV and more term. To the extent that Johnny was a better player, the age difference and contract may have levelled the trade value.

Now hindsight has proven that a terrible take, but it wasn't as outrageous at the time as you seem to think.

Yes it was. Also Johnny wasn't regressing. It was his center that was regressing and the rotation of fringe NHL players like Simon and Ritchie being put on the RW of that line. Johnny's a great player but he's not all time great that can make chicken salad out of chicken #### linemates.

[calumniate]

Jonny Walkie

[blender]

It was always an outrageous take to think Johnny was anything less than a top player in the league at his position.

[SanFranFlamesFan]

Eric Duhatschek in The Athletic, May 21, 2021 re: potential Gaudreau trade:

Just because Philadelphia and Calgary both had such underwhelming seasons — and there’s been years of speculation now that the Flyers and Flames would be good trading partners — you’d have to think there’d be communication back and forth there. You’re not going to pry Sean Couturier out of there, but what about Travis Konecny and/or Nolan Patrick? It sounds as if a fresh start might be just what Patrick needs, and a chance to land the nephew of former Flames’ defenceman James Patrick might represent the sort of young talent that the Flames need to inject into their line-up.

Craig Custance, in a "Who Says No?" trade proposals in The Athletic, March 21, 2021:

Finally, our big winner

18. Calgary sends Johnny Gaudreau and a second-round pick to the Flyers for Travis Konecny and a fifth-round pick. — @CashinIan

The Flames electric winger is no stranger to trade rumors, nor is the South Jersey native a stranger to being connected to the Flyers. It’s pretty clear the universe wants this to happen.

Exec: “Great one. That’s a great one. I think you have a deal. The reason is, there’s tons of room for Johnny in Philadelphia. Konecny fits into what Calgary is doing. The question to me is: Is Philly comfortable trading for Gaudreau when they have a great shot at him in free agency (in 2022)? Philly being just outside the playoffs today, this might help them get in the playoffs. The beauty is you get Johnny now and you can sign him. If they’re on the outside looking in, this is the offensive shot in the arm.”

Yikes.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes it was. Also Johnny wasn't regressing. It was his center that was regressing and the rotation of fringe NHL players like Simon and Ritchie being put on the RW of that line. Johnny's a great player but he's not all time great that can make chicken salad out of chicken #### linemates.

Agreed, I think we know know that Monny's regression was what was holding Johnny down.

But there was a plethora of posters who were defending Monny at the time.

[GioforPM]

It was always about contract, age, and concern about losing Gaudreau in UFA anyway. Konecny+ made sense if you don’t think you can sign JG.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If I’m not mistaken, this is my quote you’ve posted here.

And yes, it’s my belief that the Flames at the time, had the option of inking both players to long term deals. The team had the cap space going into the offseason, but the cap space was allocated elsewhere.

I mean, it is the GMs job to forecast his salary cap picture years ahead and part of that is to make long term deals in hopes that foundation players will out perform his contract. That’s certainly the case with Rasmus Andersson, but he decided not to with Mangiapane who happens to be an RFA on pace for 40 goals.

This is just such a massive assumption that you are then using to assume failure on the GM's part.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes it was. Also Johnny wasn't regressing. It was his center that was regressing and the rotation of fringe NHL players like Simon and Ritchie being put on the RW of that line. Johnny's a great player but he's not all time great that can make chicken salad out of chicken #### linemates.

I agree with a lot of this but I also think that Johnny legitimately had gotten a little passive and predictable. Some of the key things I've noticed in the last year and a half-ish
- He is no longer peeling off, button hooking when entering the zone
- Similarly he isn't trying that tough angle shot as much as he was in the past.
- He is shooting more
- He is driving the net more
- He is skating into traffic/tough areas more
- He is playing far better two way hockey, including in his own zone

So yes he was saddled with some bad players, but I also think he is REALLY stepped up his game in several ways.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If I’m not mistaken, this is my quote you’ve posted here.

And yes, it’s my belief that the Flames at the time, had the option of inking both players to long term deals. The team had the cap space going into the offseason, but the cap space was allocated elsewhere.

I mean, it is the GMs job to forecast his salary cap picture years ahead and part of that is to make long term deals in hopes that foundation players will out perform his contract. That’s certainly the case with Rasmus Andersson, but he decided not to with Mangiapane who happens to be an RFA on pace for 40 goals.

There was no cap room above what Tkachuk signed for. And there’s no indication Tkachuk wanted something longer than right to his QO. I suppose maybe he’d have taken another year, to go UFA. But not long term.

And Mangiapane’s stats were, at the time, not conducive to anything other than what he got. He had only 1.5 seasons under his belt and really only the season before had been significant. He was just below. 5 ppg. Everyone wanted to see which way he’d go. Was he blossoming or was he Lance Bouma?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I agree with a lot of this but I also think that Johnny legitimately had gotten a little passive and predictable. Some of the key things I've noticed in the last year and a half-ish
- He is no longer peeling off, button hooking when entering the zone
- Similarly he isn't trying that tough angle shot as much as he was in the past.
- He is shooting more
- He is driving the net more
- He is skating into traffic/tough areas more
- He is playing far better two way hockey, including in his own zone

So yes he was saddled with some bad players, but I also think he is REALLY stepped up his game in several ways.

That probably has as much to do with the organization finally hiring a legit NHL head coach. Poor coaches don't tend to get the best out of their players and whether you like Treliving or not you can't deny that Ward and Gulutzan in particular were not good hires and probably set the team back.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That probably has as much to do with the organization finally hiring a legit NHL head coach. Poor coaches don't tend to get the best out of their players and whether you like Treliving or not you can't deny that Ward and Gulutzan in particular were not good hires and probably set the team back.

I will agree that Sutter has had a larger impact than i thought he would
But it can't all be on coaching. The player owns some accountability.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SanFranFlamesFan

Eric Duhatschek in The Athletic, May 21, 2021 re: potential Gaudreau trade:



Craig Custance, in a "Who Says No?" trade proposals in The Athletic, March 21, 2021:



Yikes.

All this proves is just how bad some of those media guys are at trade proposals.

It was always a bad take. Gaudreau was having an off-season - for multiple reasons, including his centerman playing hurt. You don't trade guys at times like that.

Konecny never had anything close to the upside that Gaudreau has.

[FlamesAddiction]

The main argument at the time from what I recall was that JG was a pending UFA and the team was really under-performing. If we were going to lose him for nothing, a better alternative would be to get a really good player back on a decent contract.

If we do end up losing JG for nothing and the team fizzles out in the playoffs, we can revisit this.

[Jason14h]

They were playing Richie on his wing

Let that sink in

Richie was playing on JG's wing last year for a large part of the season

Then add in Monahan and why would anyone be surprised.

Did he become predictable? Sure - He had 2 boat anchors on his line and would double back waiting for anyone to catch up with the play and help offensively

For some reason fans and coaches continue to think you can put lesser skilled players with superstars and they will pull them up. It rarely actually happens.

Sure, you get the occasional Anson Carter or Cheechoo, but usually the lesser skilled player pulls down the superstar.

You need very smart players to play with guys like JG and even McDavid. Chemistry is so important when playing with guys like that.

Theres a reason the Oilers havent been able have any success putting scrubs on McDavid's wing. Same reason you can't put a scrub on JG's line and expect miracles.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All this proves is just how bad some of those media guys are at trade proposals.

It was always a bad take. Gaudreau was having an off-season - for multiple reasons, including his centerman playing hurt. You don't trade guys at times like that.

Konecny never had anything close to the upside that Gaudreau has.

Well in hindsight. But in hindsight people are also lamenting BT for not trading Monahan earlier.

It can be difficult to differentiate between a down season and the start of a downwards trajectory.

That's what differentiates good and bad GM's for the most part. Properly evaluating their talent