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Old 01-19-2022, 12:26 PM   #781
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Voyager will always hold a soft spot in my heart.
I should have continued this thought: I have to start at season 3 and skip many episodes to rewatch it though.
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Old 01-19-2022, 01:00 PM   #782
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I should have continued this thought: I have to start at season 3 and skip many episodes to rewatch it though.

I usually skip seasons one and two of TNG. Except Skin of Evil. I can watch Tasha die every day of the week. ####, she was awful.

The only thing Voyager did that was totally unforgivable to me was to not have the "year of hell" be an entire season.
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Old 01-19-2022, 01:13 PM   #783
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I usually skip seasons one and two of TNG. Except Skin of Evil. I can watch Tasha die every day of the week. ####, she was awful.

The only thing Voyager did that was totally unforgivable to me was to not have the "year of hell" be an entire season.
See that would have been a cool idea except the concept of a season-long story-arch was something that was effectively unheard of at the time and something to which the Star Trek writers seemed fundamentally opposed to.

And then they've taken STD and gone all the way off the batcrap crazy deep-end with it.

I too have been re-watching DS9 because I didnt give it the fair shake it deserved at the time, and they did some small 2, 3 and 6 episode mini-arcs that I think worked quite well.

Further, this was back in the Golden Age of television when a season would have ~26 episodes.

Thats a lot for a single story arch.
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Old 01-19-2022, 03:31 PM   #784
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See that would have been a cool idea except the concept of a season-long story-arch was something that was effectively unheard of at the time and something to which the Star Trek writers seemed fundamentally opposed to.

And then they've taken STD and gone all the way off the batcrap crazy deep-end with it.

I too have been re-watching DS9 because I didnt give it the fair shake it deserved at the time, and they did some small 2, 3 and 6 episode mini-arcs that I think worked quite well.

Further, this was back in the Golden Age of television when a season would have ~26 episodes.

Thats a lot for a single story arch.

I don't feel like a year from hell would be that far off from the story building blocks from DS9. Two - Five episodes on each portion of the arc before it reaches the climax. I do understand your point though. I also don't know how you'd finish that season up as an entire season hand waved away would be absolutely infuriating. I still think it was an opportunity to give a look at something very different.
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Old 01-19-2022, 03:49 PM   #785
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See that would have been a cool idea except the concept of a season-long story-arch was something that was effectively unheard of at the time and something to which the Star Trek writers seemed fundamentally opposed to.

And then they've taken STD and gone all the way off the batcrap crazy deep-end with it.

I too have been re-watching DS9 because I didnt give it the fair shake it deserved at the time, and they did some small 2, 3 and 6 episode mini-arcs that I think worked quite well.

Further, this was back in the Golden Age of television when a season would have ~26 episodes.

Thats a lot for a single story arch.
Voyager should have been 7 years of hell. It should have been Battlestar Galactica, all depleted and with her back broken at the end of it. Stupid syndication made it boring sitcom show where everything reset to perfect condition each episode.

It doesn't have to be the forefront of every episode, but a gradual depletion of the crew and ship should have continued every season as the background arc to their desperate flight back home.

Instead, Voyager was not only in mint-condition every episode, but they usually outclassed every race they encountered technologically and had their way with them so the only threat they could bring back was to heavily overuse the Borg and Species 69 (or whatever it was) to bring in a sense of danger.

Even that was screwed up as those threats were so overpowered that in the in-universe canon of Star Trek, there is no way the Voyager would have survived even a mild encounter with the Borg so they end up buffing Voyager even more and giving them super powers and cheating the premise of the show by letting them use Borg tech to survive and get home. This would be like ants floating on a log learning how to operate an F-22 Raptor and fly around the world.
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:14 PM   #786
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Voyager should have been 7 years of hell. It should have been Battlestar Galactica, all depleted and with her back broken at the end of it. Stupid syndication made it boring sitcom show where everything reset to perfect condition each episode.

It doesn't have to be the forefront of every episode, but a gradual depletion of the crew and ship should have continued every season as the background arc to their desperate flight back home.

Instead, Voyager was not only in mint-condition every episode, but they usually outclassed every race they encountered technologically and had their way with them so the only threat they could bring back was to heavily overuse the Borg and Species 69 (or whatever it was) to bring in a sense of danger.

Even that was screwed up as those threats were so overpowered that in the in-universe canon of Star Trek, there is no way the Voyager would have survived even a mild encounter with the Borg so they end up buffing Voyager even more and giving them super powers and cheating the premise of the show by letting them use Borg tech to survive and get home. This would be like ants floating on a log learning how to operate an F-22 Raptor and fly around the world.
You forgot that the ants also nuked the white house and nerfed the President on their way back to the ant hill.
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:16 PM   #787
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DS9 did the scarcity element way better and they were within the quadrant. Multiple episodes devoted to dealing with ####ty relic cardassian technology, or the struggles of having to replace broken parts, or the chief adding triple redundancies to everything, etc.

Edit: last complaint because I could go for hours, but the fact that voyager could withstand attacks from a borg cube but couldn't completely eradicate a fleet of barbarous kazon was always absolutely maddening, and adds to my inability to rewatch any of the first couple seasons of the show.

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Old 01-19-2022, 04:17 PM   #788
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Voyager should have been 7 years of hell. It should have been Battlestar Galactica, all depleted and with her back broken at the end of it. Stupid syndication made it boring sitcom show where everything reset to perfect condition each episode.

It doesn't have to be the forefront of every episode, but a gradual depletion of the crew and ship should have continued every season as the background arc to their desperate flight back home.

Instead, Voyager was not only in mint-condition every episode, but they usually outclassed every race they encountered technologically and had their way with them so the only threat they could bring back was to heavily overuse the Borg and Species 69 (or whatever it was) to bring in a sense of danger.

Even that was screwed up as those threats were so overpowered that in the in-universe canon of Star Trek, there is no way the Voyager would have survived even a mild encounter with the Borg so they end up buffing Voyager even more and giving them super powers and cheating the premise of the show by letting them use Borg tech to survive and get home. This would be like ants floating on a log learning how to operate an F-22 Raptor and fly around the world.
All that and the Chakotay-Seven of Nine love story was so screwed up. The Doctor and her had way more chemistry
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:20 PM   #789
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All that and the Chakotay-Seven of Nine love story was so screwed up. The Doctor and her had way more chemistry
I always found the Doctor's love of Seven to be extremely creepy and unhealthy. She clearly viewed him as a mentor and had NO romantic interest, yet he was always fawning. Creepy teacher vibes.

Loved the Doctor for many reasons but he was always way to creepy about Seven.
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:32 PM   #790
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the only threat they could bring back was to heavily overuse the Borg and Species 69 (or whatever it was) to bring in a sense of danger.
that's these guys right?

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Old 01-19-2022, 05:19 PM   #791
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"Ok. We are all going down to the sex planet. Everyone try to have fun. It's really hard to not just have sex on this planet. It's pretty much all they do."

Wesley falls on a flower within six minutes.

...

"Our only law. Kill him."
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Old 01-19-2022, 05:47 PM   #792
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"Ok. We are all going down to the sex planet. Everyone try to have fun. It's really hard to not just have sex on this planet. It's pretty much all they do."

Wesley falls on a flower within six minutes.

...

"Our only law. Kill him."
They were trying to do the universe a favour.
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Old 01-19-2022, 06:56 PM   #793
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https://trekmovie.com/2022/01/18/sta...ge-new-worlds/

How does STD get renewed again? Who is watching this show even to justify additional seasons when so many great streaming shows get cancelled? This just gives the Paramount the mistaken idea that they are on the right track with this show!
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:33 PM   #794
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that's these guys right?

Imagine if this was your first day on set. The director yells "action!" and it's spandex condom space suits vs discount store toga party.
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:51 PM   #795
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Well according to the article STD is the most watched show on Paramount+, so... I guess that's justification enough. Going back to some of the commentary on the last 1-2 pages, it's pretty sad that STD gets a fifth season and Enterprise didn't. They did that show dirty. I rewatched some of it in the last few months and it really wasn't bad at all (I definitely rate it higher than Voyager ).

I can see why the ratings kind of fell off a cliff in the first season, with the deeply uninteresting "Temporal Cold War" arc weaving its way through the season. I think it left the audience with a kind of incredulous feeling of "WTF?" without being anywhere near as engrossing as, say, Lost, which premiered in Enterprise's third season.

The season 3 Xindi arc was where it really fell off the rails for me; it never made any narrative sense that they would introduce a new big baddie that we'd never heard of before in the chronology of the show. They should have spent that time making the Romulans more malevolent, like the season 4 arc about the remote-piloted "holo-ship".
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Old 01-19-2022, 09:08 PM   #796
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Imagine if this was your first day on set. The director yells "action!" and it's spandex condom space suits vs discount store toga party.
It was the 80's, so they probably didn't think anything of it.
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Old 01-19-2022, 09:36 PM   #797
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Imagine if this was your first day on set. The director yells "action!" and it's spandex condom space suits vs discount store toga party.

Cut Wesley has another *****.
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Old 01-19-2022, 09:41 PM   #798
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Voyager should have been 7 years of hell. It should have been Battlestar Galactica, all depleted and with her back broken at the end of it. Stupid syndication made it boring sitcom show where everything reset to perfect condition each episode.

It doesn't have to be the forefront of every episode, but a gradual depletion of the crew and ship should have continued every season as the background arc to their desperate flight back home.

Instead, Voyager was not only in mint-condition every episode, but they usually outclassed every race they encountered technologically and had their way with them so the only threat they could bring back was to heavily overuse the Borg and Species 69 (or whatever it was) to bring in a sense of danger.

Even that was screwed up as those threats were so overpowered that in the in-universe canon of Star Trek, there is no way the Voyager would have survived even a mild encounter with the Borg so they end up buffing Voyager even more and giving them super powers and cheating the premise of the show by letting them use Borg tech to survive and get home. This would be like ants floating on a log learning how to operate an F-22 Raptor and fly around the world.

Voyager was more hugs then survival. You never got a sense at all that the crew or ship was in danger except for the year in hell. Borg, Janeway does the hip thrust dance over their smoking corpses.


The closest they came was when they came across the other federation ship that had given up their noble ideas to survive and were basically burning aliens as fuel and their ship was kicked to pieces. I wanted that series.



Its the one thing with TNG and Voyage was that you knew that Janeway and Picard never had to be in that situation where they said F the ideals of the Federation, they've never been in this situation. Meanwhile Archer is torturing people and threatening to throw them out the airlock while stranding strangers when they take their warp drive. And Sisko is flat out murdering people or letting Garak do it.



Even in Voyager the worst it got was oh no we're rationing power you only get 20 minutes a day in the holosuite and ice cream costs to much power in the replicator so no ice cream.


Voyager was way to easy for a supposed dire situation.
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Old 01-19-2022, 11:26 PM   #799
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https://trekmovie.com/2022/01/18/sta...ge-new-worlds/

How does STD get renewed again? Who is watching this show even to justify additional seasons when so many great streaming shows get cancelled? This just gives the Paramount the mistaken idea that they are on the right track with this show!

Strange New Worlds already renewed for a second season, and the first one hasn't even aired yet. Interesting.

And a 3rd season for Picard as well. That's a lot of Trek coming our way.
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Old 01-20-2022, 08:01 AM   #800
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See that would have been a cool idea except the concept of a season-long story-arch was something that was effectively unheard of at the time and something to which the Star Trek writers seemed fundamentally opposed to.

I thought I read an article a while back that the writers actually wanted to have it a full season but they got over-ruled by the producers.
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