2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If the Flames are not in a playoff spot come the deadline, they will need to be very bad, considering their competition. I doubt that happens.

Now if they are not in a position, do the Flames give up? I find that unlikely, unless they are so far out, which is even more unlikely.

Johnny would be hard to trade with such a restrictive list. It could be essentially a full NTC if he's listed 5 teams that would have no interest in a rental.

If Gaudreau doesn't plan to re-sign here, my guess is that he doesn't turn down a trade to a contender, whether they are on his list or not.

But I doubt that's the scenario we find ourselves in.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If Gaudreau doesn't plan to re-sign here, my guess is that he doesn't turn down a trade to a contender, whether they are on his list or not.

But I doubt that's the scenario we find ourselves in.

Also not in the Flames favor is that most of the teams that are likely on his 5 team list are not looking like playoff contenders this season.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Flames should be considering a scored earth scenario at the trade deadline. If they aren't in the mix at the trade deadline it should be a garage sale between the TDL and the draft. Without Gaudreau under a contract, and staring Tkachuk's deal in face, it should be time to complete a massive rebuild. I think Treliving missed the boat during this past summer while big game hunting and has set this organization up for a very difficult rebuild through his lack of vision. They should NOT be wasting assets to try and take a run this spring. They should be sellers in every way and trying to build some critical mass in our prospect pool.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Flames should be considering a scored earth scenario at the trade deadline. If they aren't in the mix at the trade deadline it should be a garage sale between the TDL and the draft. Without Gaudreau under a contract, and staring Tkachuk's deal in face, it should be time to complete a massive rebuild. I think Treliving missed the boat during this past summer while big game hunting and has set this organization up for a very difficult rebuild through his lack of vision. They should NOT be wasting assets to try and take a run this spring. They should be sellers in every way and trying to build some critical mass in our prospect pool.

But but... what if they are only a few points out of the playoffs at the deadline? Maybe they can make it and then go all the way to win the cup. Remember the Kings with Sutter?!?!?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think many of us agree that the team would ideally do something like that. But with Sutter at the helm it's just not likely at all

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If Gaudreau doesn't plan to re-sign here, my guess is that he doesn't turn down a trade to a contender, whether they are on his list or not.

But I doubt that's the scenario we find ourselves in.

I think Gaudreau will ultimately re-sign in Calgary. Maybe he would like to play for the Flyers but that team is seemingly going into a re-tool / rebuild and is a total tire fire right now so I'm not sure that's a very attractive destination anymore for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If Gaudreau doesn't plan to re-sign here, my guess is that he doesn't turn down a trade to a contender, whether they are on his list or not.

But I doubt that's the scenario we find ourselves in.

Yeah, there's no much downside for Johnny to waive at that point. A couple months with a contender, then into UFA, where he was heading anyway (in that scenario).

[CliffFletcher]

I don’t think where teams are in the standings matters to player destinations as much as fans think. With the parity in the league, most teams will spend most of the 4-7 year span of a player contract in that middle band of 7th to 25th in the standings. Projecting how much success Calgary vs New Jersey vs Philly will have in the next seven seasons involves too much guesswork to carry as much weight as known values like locale, travel, family, etc.

The exception is the very specific circumstance of a 30-something star facing impending retirement without a ring looking for a short-term deal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t think where teams are in the standings matters to player destinations as much as fans think. With the parity in the league, most teams will spend most of the 4-7 year span of a player contract in that middle band of 7th to 25th in the standings. Projecting how much success Calgary vs New Jersey vs Philly will have in the next seven seasons involves too much guesswork to carry as much weight as known values like locale, travel, family, etc.

The exception is the very specific circumstance of a 30-something star facing impending retirement without a ring looking for a short-term deal.

It doesn't matter much for JG's next contract. It could influence him to waive his NTC at the deadline as a rental, while he runs out his current one.

[Jiri Hrdina]

If Johnny walks for nothing it will be a massive failure for which the GM should be fired.
That being said, I'm also not convinced that signing him to a long-term, high cap deal is also a good thing.
It seems like that would mean the team continues to be average moving forward.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If Johnny walks for nothing it will be a massive failure for which the GM should be fired.
That being said, I'm also not convinced that signing him to a long-term, high cap deal is also a good thing.
It seems like that would mean the team continues to be average moving forward.

If the Flames were in first place and kept him at the deadline would you still feel this way?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If Johnny walks for nothing it will be a massive failure for which the GM should be fired.
That being said, I'm also not convinced that signing him to a long-term, high cap deal is also a good thing.
It seems like that would mean the team continues to be average moving forward.

I agree that a LW contract can't be too high. As good as Gaudreau is, it's just not the position you can afford to spend the farm on. Treliving seems to me to be strictly market based. Which means a Kaprizov contract (JG will ask for Panarin and Treliving hopefully will say "that was a stupid contract"). I mean, Kucherov just signed a couple years ago, plays RW (albeit left handed), makes $9.5 and he's better than Gaudreau. I suppose you could say Gaudreau and Rantanen are worth the same and pay him $9.25. Or up the value with more term.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree that a LW contract can't be too high. As good as Gaudreau is, it's just not the position you can afford to spend the farm on. Treliving seems to me to be strictly market based. Which means a Kaprizov contract (JG will ask for Panarin and Treliving hopefully will say "that was a stupid contract"). I mean, Kucherov just signed a couple years ago, plays RW (albeit left handed), makes $9.5 and he's better than Gaudreau. I suppose you could say Gaudreau and Rantanen are worth the same and pay him $9.25. Or up the value with more term.

What is market value? What the most desperate team is willing to pay? I think it's clear that Coleman and Markstrom are Flames because Treliving was willing to give more money/term than 31 other teams for those players. I personally don't understand why a GM would be happy to overspend for a depth guy like Coleman and not a difference maker like Gaudreau.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What is market value? What the most desperate team is willing to pay? I think it's clear that Coleman and Markstrom are Flames because Treliving was willing to give more money/term than 31 other teams for those players. I personally don't understand why a GM would be happy to overspend for a depth guy like Coleman and not a difference maker like Gaudreau.

Market value is the most probable price that an asset should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale. I terms of hockey contracts, comparables are the best indicator. Which is why I listed them.

If you look at UFA signings in 2021, Coleman got what the market was dictating - Markstrom too (for 2020). I mean Markstrom is paid about the same as Binnington, Hellebuyck, Grubauer, and a little less than Gibson and Murray. and far less than Vasilevskiy, Bobsrovsky and Price.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What is market value? What the most desperate team is willing to pay? I think it's clear that Coleman and Markstrom are Flames because Treliving was willing to give more money/term than 31 other teams for those players.

Nvm

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What is market value? What the most desperate team is willing to pay? I think it's clear that Coleman and Markstrom are Flames because Treliving was willing to give more money/term than 31 other teams for those players.

Well yeah, that’s how free agency works.

And I’m betting right now Holland is wishing he had bid 500k more per year or a year longer for Markstrom.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What is market value? What the most desperate team is willing to pay? I think it's clear that Coleman and Markstrom are Flames because Treliving was willing to give more money/term than 31 other teams for those players. I personally don't understand why a GM would be happy to overspend for a depth guy like Coleman and not a difference maker like Gaudreau.

could be wrong but I think the Oilers offered Markstrom more term (I recall they offered 7 years), for sure, and equal dollars.

[Strange Brew]

So is most every trade and every signing market value? That adjective is fairly bland when evaluating whether it was a good signing for the team or not.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Flames should be considering a scored earth scenario at the trade deadline. If they aren't in the mix at the trade deadline it should be a garage sale between the TDL and the draft. Without Gaudreau under a contract, and staring Tkachuk's deal in face, it should be time to complete a massive rebuild. I think Treliving missed the boat during this past summer while big game hunting and has set this organization up for a very difficult rebuild through his lack of vision. They should NOT be wasting assets to try and take a run this spring. They should be sellers in every way and trying to build some critical mass in our prospect pool.

interesting to see who thanks these types of posts, no surprises. Where's Theo?

'Team Fail' cheerleaders out in full force.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well yeah, that’s how free agency works.

And I’m betting right now Holland is wishing he had bid 500k more per year or a year longer for Markstrom.

You are missing the point of my post. I see posts that fans aren't keen on overpaying Gaudreau which makes no sense as he's the best player on the team and only difference maker in the organization. Meanwhile there are a lot of people on this forum defending the Coleman contract which is a repeat on the Brouwer and Neal free agency mistakes. Don't get me wrong, he's a good depth player but doesn't move the needle at all. The Flames record this season would not be any different with or without him. The Leafs and Lightning haven't missed Hyman or Coleman at all. They just keep winning on shoulders of their difference makers. Difference makers are well worth the overpayment in a league where GM's just can't help themselves when it comes to overpaying for depth and leadership.