[News] And so begins the end... (or: Vegas can eat a giant D)

[FanIn80]

All I know is if there's one franchise in this league that I flat out distrust it's Vegas. I mean it's a town literally built on a foundation of lying, cheating, scheming and general disregard for laws and rules.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't disagree, but I don't think trading a guy who is playing at ppg at 2.75M for two more years after this is the best way to solve your cap problems.

I’m saying he’s a guy someone will demand as part of a bigger trade, in addition to acquiring the other cap (eg Smith). In addition, those two guys and Janmark are the only forwards making over $2M who don’t have some form of NTC.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

All I know is if there's one franchise in this league that I flat out distrust it's Vegas. I mean it's a town literally built on a foundation of lying, cheating, scheming and general disregard for laws and rules.

Is that why I love it there?

You might be describing Chicago though. I'd call Vegas a town built on taking huge chances.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly I still think this was more Buffalo's fault than Tre's.

Rumors indicate that they saw Krebs as the same level as prospect as Drysdale or Zegras...which is just horrible talent assessment on Buffalo's part.

I'm not sure Krebs is even a tier higher than Zary or Pelletier.

Not to come off condescending here or anything but.... Vegas has a huge payroll of professional scouts who personally watch and grade these players. If they isolated Krebs as a talent they really wanted in the deal I'd trust that over you who's likely comparing some quick analytics numbers and JFresh tweets you pulled up....

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m saying he’s a guy someone will demand as part of a bigger trade, in addition to acquiring the other cap (eg Smith). In addition, those two guys and Janmark are the only forwards making over $2M who don’t have some form of NTC.

I hear you, but it's like us using Lindholm to dump Lucic (of course our cap isn't as dire).

As for the NTC's, they are 10 team no go lists (8 in March's case) that were submitted in the summer. Probably fair to assume BUF and OTT are on most lists, and likely some/all of EDM/WPG/CGY/ARI/CBJ. There's still gonna be 22+ teams available to deal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I hear you, but it's like us using Lindholm to dump Lucic (of course our cap isn't as dire).

As for the NTC's, they are 10 team no go lists (8 in March's case) that were submitted in the summer. Probably fair to assume BUF and OTT are on most lists, and likely some/all of EDM/WPG/CGY/ARI/CBJ. There's still gonna be 22+ teams available to deal

Not really. It’s more like a team asking for Lindholm in a trade which creates space for Calgary to dress Mackinnon.

What line is Stephenson playing on post Eichel? And will he be anywhere near as productive feeding those guys versus Stone and Paccioretty?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Not to come off condescending here or anything but.... Vegas has a huge payroll of professional scouts who personally watch and grade these players. If they isolated Krebs as a talent they really wanted in the deal I'd trust that over you who's likely comparing some quick analytics numbers and JFresh tweets you pulled up....

It wasn’t Vegas that traded for Krebs…it was Buffalo. I think it’s fair to question their prospect and draft evaluation at times. Plus you don’t need to be a scout to be able to have opinions of a hockey player on a forum.

Krebs is a good prospect but I think he’s more of a b-tier type prospect, and I wouldn’t say he’s a cant miss blue chip prospect the level of guys like Zegras, Lafreniere, or Drysdale which were the other key names mentioned in Eichel sweepstakes.

He’s probably a slight tier ahead of Pelletier and Zary but Krebs performance in juniors and now in the AHL is not miles ahead of those guys. His offensive upside is a little higher than the Flames top prospects but I think their overall impact is pretty similar.

My personal opinion is when deals like this happen the worst thing a GM can do is fixate on a certain player or type of package. You get too narrow minded and instead of looking at the best overall package, or being open minded to different types of deals, you become too enamoured on the package that you fixated on.

I just have a feeling Buffalo did that here with Tuch (local guy to sell to fans) and Krebs, and I think even Friedman has said that Buffalo was really focused on Krebs and Tuch.

When you have Elliotte Friedman saying "I heard that the Sabres ask from Anaheim was Trevor Zegras, Jamie Drysdale, and two first-rounders. Anaheim wasn't willing to do that,"

And then the actual deal is Krebs, Tuch, and a 1st…something doesn’t add up because those two packages aren’t even in the same realm.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It wasn’t Vegas that traded for Krebs…it was Buffalo. I think it’s fair to question their prospect and draft evaluation at times. Plus you don’t need to be a scout to be able to have opinions of a hockey player on a forum.

Krebs is a good prospect but I think he’s more of a b-tier type prospect, and I wouldn’t say he’s a cant miss blue chip prospect the level of guys like Zegras, Lafreniere, or Drysdale which were the other key names mentioned in Eichel sweepstakes.

He’s probably a slight tier ahead of Pelletier and Zary but Krebs performance in juniors and now in the AHL is not miles ahead of those guys. His offensive upside is a little higher than the Flames top prospects but I think their overall impact is pretty similar.

My personal opinion is when deals like this happen the worst thing a GM can do is fixate on a certain player or type of package. You get too narrow minded and instead of looking at the best overall package, or being open minded to different types of deals, you become too enamoured on the package that you fixated on.

I just have a feeling Buffalo did that here with Tuch (local guy to sell to fans) and Krebs, and I think even Friedman has said that Buffalo was really focused on Krebs and Tuch.

In fairness to Buffalo, Tuch is a really nice piece. Same kind of points historically as Mangiapane, in a bigger package and under a long firm favourable deal. And like you say, he wants to be there, which for them is a rarity.

I think while Calgary could have offered a better player in Tkachuk, or a similar player points wise in Mangiapane, neither come with a contract, and for sure Tkachuk wouldn’t be long term there. And then it’s a matter of Krebs versus Pelletier, Coronato or Zary. Now you could say Calgary should have offered two of those players, but maybe that doesn’t even get it done.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

One "easy" fix for the Knights is just to acquire two big LTIR contracts, like Leddy for example. Will only cost them maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick each.

LTIR doesn't subtract from your cap, it just doesn't hit your cap. So acquiring a player on LTIR solves nothing when it comes to Eichel.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t know anyone that’s ever played a game over the cap - I think they just ice a short handed team.

I was thinking about this the other day. Wondering which team might be first to decide that only 3 lines are needed and not 4. Might it be better to just have no 4th line and use that cap space for a better 3 lines. Surely 9-10 players could absorb 6ish minutes of ice time.

Is it mandated by the CBA that a team must have 12F and 6D on the roster?

[dino7c]

Buffalo wanted Tuch as much as Krebs

People act like he was a throw in...a rare player who actually wants to be in Buffalo

[djsFlames]

Nobody help these losers.

Let them drown in their cap problems.

Or at the very least, take them to the cleaners in order to get cap compliant.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That whole Toronto - Clarkson thing seems to have confused people about how LTIR works. Seems that every other person now thinks that you can just acquire LTIR contracts to exceed the cap. It can be confusing as hell though, I still don't know how the Clarkson thing worked.

I'm probably seven kinds of wrong on this and it will definitely be an oversimplification, but I thought it was because LTIR only gets you relief for the amount over cap that that contract puts you when you put them on LTIR. So if you are 2 million over cap, and put a 7 million AAV player on LTIR, then you only get 2 million cap relief. So what Toronto did was ensure they were right up to the cap, then put contracts on LTIR, to maximize their cap relief.

[dissentowner]

I was listening to an interview with McPhee who basically said they are not worried about the cap and they don't really have a plan to deal with it, they will just address it when it becomes an issue. So what he is saying is he is not concerned because he knows the league will turn a blind eye to any shinanigans they pull.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I was listening to an interview with McPhee who basically said they are not worried about the cap and they don't really have a plan to deal with it, they will just address it when it becomes an issue. So what he is saying is he is not concerned because he knows the league will turn a blind eye to any shinanigans they pull.

He also said at one point that he doesn't expect the team to be fully healthy at any point, so pretty clear that he is going do whatever he can to take advantage of the LTIR system.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GhostCookie

I'm probably seven kinds of wrong on this and it will definitely be an oversimplification, but I thought it was because LTIR only gets you relief for the amount over cap that that contract puts you when you put them on LTIR. So if you are 2 million over cap, and put a 7 million AAV player on LTIR, then you only get 2 million cap relief. So what Toronto did was ensure they were right up to the cap, then put contracts on LTIR, to maximize their cap relief.

Last part is wrong.

If you add up all of Vegas contracts and pro-rated them for games played already, they will need to shed about 5 million in cap space to activate Kane, or have player(s) on LTIR totaling at least that 5M in contracts - because the salary of players on LTIR are effectively not counted against the cap.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Well, I certainly disagree. He absolutely is.

Just wondering, what metric are you using for Krebs?

Buffalo called him up, first 2 games he got 2nd line center duty, one secondary assist and -5 in 3 games. I watched him against NJ and the NYI's and he was brutal, silly junior moves that resulted in turnovers for goals against and went out of his way to avoid contact...off he goes to the AHL again.

Krebs turns 21 in two weeks, has 2 secondary assists in 16 NHL games, he reminds me of Sven Baertschi minus an NHL calibre shot.

For me there is no metric that Krebs is better than Pelletier, work ethic, jam, shot, awareness and defense. Hell, Pelletier even had a more productive junior career! Big deal, Krebs plays center, this only matters if you can play in the NHL.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Last part is wrong.

If you add up all of Vegas contracts and pro-rated them for games played already, they will need to shed about 5 million in cap space to activate Kane, or have player(s) on LTIR totaling at least that 5M in contracts - because the salary of players on LTIR are effectively not counted against the cap.

Toronto's was different on account of it being part of the off season, and was done in order to make room for a Marner signing. It doesn't necessarily mean it will work in Vegas case. I think they can still do something similar, but it will definitely mean:
a) Taking on the payments of the LTIR contracts they pick up (not a big deal for expiring deals as most of the contract has been paid)
b) Paying for this with picks/prospects, as these are players that are already LTIR and not negatively affecting the team giving them up, they won't help Vegas out of the kindness of their hearts.

If they take on anything that lasts longer than this year, it can also impact their cap flexibility over the off season as well.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Nobody help these losers.

Let them drown in their cap problems.

Or at the very least, take them to the cleaners in order to get cap compliant.

I don't think Vegas has a cap problem.

When you have loads of good players that take up too much cap, that just means you're a good team.

Having a cap problem is having loads of bad/mediocre contracts and no cap space.

If we've learned anything in the last two years, you just have to be creative with how you manipulate the cap.

"Oh no, we're bumping up against the cap and can't fit players in...oh wait a second, here go take that optional surgery you can get to help address a minor issue, and we'll see you opening night for the playoffs".

[cannon7]

Looking at Vegas' cap situation, is Riley Smith the likely target to shed cap? $5M cap hit, last year of his contract.