Sutter re: recalling prospects

[TheScorpion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1481031647201955841

https://twitter.com/user/status/1481031792224210946

https://twitter.com/user/status/1481031825346613248

While I understand what Darryl is getting at here, groan @ the "undersized" comment — and there are also prospects in Stockton who have played more than one or two years. Although I'm not sure that matters in Pelletier's case when he's already top-3 in scoring and the Flames' existing forward depth is horrendous.

It's not like Pelletier, Phillips, or Gawdin necessarily have to come up and turn into elite players right away to be able to stick. That's ludicrous and unrealistic. But when you have four forwards who are barely NHL calibre, if that (Ritchie, Richardson, Lewis, Pitlick) in your rotation every night — where's the downside in making a change?

[Patek23]

I trust in Sutter more then I trust in restless fans after a 3 game skid against top teams.

Our roster may not be exciting but Sutter wants players in that execute his game plan. Considering our losses have come off mishaps and poor turnovers I'm not sure adding rookies into the equation will help that.

[Monahammer]

Sutter also played in the AHL and NHL as a somewhat undersized forward (5'11 175lbs), and coached many in this same situation. Groan all you want, but this is someone who knows what he is talking about.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1481011815211409410

I don't know, Sutter's response seems pretty reasonable to me. An aside - I've been pretty happy with Lewis as a player. Richardson, Pitlick (especially Pitlick) and to a lesser extent, Ritchie (low expectations) are pretty meh though, I'd agree.

[TheScorpion]

Darryl obviously knows what he's talking about, he's a good coach, but the bottom third of the forward lineup has been very poor all season. The bar isn't for a Pelletier or Phillips to come in and blow the doors off. They just have to be better than Brad Richardson.

I don't understand the patience at this point when we're already close to halfway through the season and they clearly have guys in the AHL boosting a powerhouse team. Even if he thinks Pelletier is too young ... this is Phillips' fourth season and he's dominating the league, top 10 in AHL scoring. Isn't that the threshold he needs to reach to get a look?

[Bingo]

I do think you have to be careful with young pros ... so Pelletier patience makes sense.

I wouldn't mind seeing Phillips get a chance ... I felt Gawdin looked behind the game early in the year (and last year) when it came to processing speed, and Ruzicka was definitely hurting in a pace of play standpoint.

But Phillips is quick, and a dog on a bone, he's way undersized, but I'd love to see him get a look and see if he could add some offensive zone time to the bottom six.

[SuperMatt18]

I think his point holds for Pelletier.

He's 20 years old, has only played 29 pro games, and isn't the biggest guy...he can stay in the AHL still.

But it doesn't hold water for any of:

Ruzicka: 95 AHL Games, 0.67 PPG in the AHL, 8 NHL GP
Phillips: 160 AHL Games, 0.75 PPG in the AHL, 1 NHL GP
Gawdin: 166 AHL Games, 0.75 PPG in the AHL, 9 NHL GP

All three of those guys have deserved more of an NHL look at this point. If anything Ruzicka has gotten the longest look this year, while he's probably the least deserving of the three to actually get a look. But he's big so he get's a longer look.

Gawdin didn't blow the doors off in his 2 games this year, but he looked better than Richardson and Pitlick IMO.

Phillips is really the one that deserves a look to be honest. While he's very undersized, he has the biggest potential to be an actual offensive driver at the next level.

The undersized comment is annoying to be honest, our best forward this year is undersized. I would take another Gaudreau or Mangiapane on this team in a heart beat, even if they are small. And isn't that why we have the size in our bottom 6.

Lucic-Dube-Phillips....wouldn't that be the perfect scenario to be able to give an undersized guy like Phillips a look. Playing with Lucic and Dube in a more sheltered role.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
Lucic - Dube - Phillips
Monahan + two of Lewis, Pitlick, Ritchie

Richardson get's waived...that feels like something that's worth a shot to me.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

But when you have four forwards who are barely NHL calibre, if that (Ritchie, Richardson, Lewis, Pitlick) in your rotation every night — where's the downside in making a change?

A) It’s unlikely Pelletier is as reliable defensively as any of those guys yet. And the bottom two lines are checking lines.

B) Pelletier will be trying to generate offence against opponents who are superior in all ways to the competition in the AHL. Going from having a hot hand and feeling confident to getting shut down by bigger, faster, smarter players can crush confidence. Far more players have been ruined by being rushed into the NHL than by spending too much time in the minors.

Having said that, Gawdin deserves a shot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Darryl obviously knows what he's talking about, he's a good coach, but the bottom third of the forward lineup has been very poor all season. The bar isn't for a Pelletier or Phillips to come in and blow the doors off. They just have to be better than Brad Richardson.

I don't understand the patience at this point when we're already close to halfway through the season and they clearly have guys in the AHL boosting a powerhouse team. Even if he thinks Pelletier is too young ... this is Phillips' fourth season and he's dominating the league, top 10 in AHL scoring. Isn't that the threshold he needs to reach to get a look?

Disagree with the bolded.

The most important thing is to develop these players to their high point, not just hurdle the lowest bar on the NHL club.

If bringing up Pelletier too quickly sets him back, then what was the point of being a bit better than the team's worst forward?

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I do think you have to be careful with young pros ... so Pelletier patience makes sense.

I wouldn't mind seeing Phillips get a chance ... I felt Gawdin looked behind the game early in the year (and last year) when it came to processing speed, and Ruzicka was definitely hurting in a pace of play standpoint.

But Phillips is quick, and a dog on a bone, he's way undersized, but I'd love to see him get a look and see if he could add some offensive zone time to the bottom six.

I think what is hurting Phillips' chances are having Gaudreau and Mangiapane on the team. You add Phillips and 25% of your forward group is sub 170lbs (sorry, won't believe Mangiapane is over 180)

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A) It’s unlikely Pelletier is as reliable defensively as any of those guys yet. And the bottom two lines are checking lines.

B) Pelletier will be trying to generate offence against opponents who are superior in all ways to the competition in the AHL. Going from having a hot hand and feeling confident to getting shut down by bigger, faster, smarter players can crush confidence. Far more players have bee ruined by being rushed into the NHL than by spending too much time in the minors.

Having said that, Gawdin deserves a shot.

For the record, Pelletier is already one of Stockton's top penalty killers as a rookie.

I'm actually less convinced on Gawdin because he's a pending UFA and might not be long for the organization. He's also had the longest NHL sample and hasn't been all that good.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I didn't see anything from Gawdin or Ruzicka to tell me they are going to be anything more than tweeners.
I agree with others, it would be interesting to give Phillips a proper look.

[1Nite]

I wonder what are the prospects of a trade.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

For the record, Pelletier is already one of Stockton's top penalty killers as a rookie.

I'm actually less convinced on Gawdin because he's a pending UFA and might not be long for the organization. He's also had the longest NHL sample and hasn't been all that good.

Being a good PKer and being reliably 5 on 5 are different things.
Though I know you've watched the team WAY more than me, so not discounting your opinion. But I think people conflate being a good PKer and being good defensively.

[AustinL_NHL]

I love what Sutter is doing here...

On one hand, he's saying the NHL roster doesn't have enough talent or scoring.

On the other hand, he's saying the AHL kids need more time and you can't just expect them to immediately succeed in the NHL.

Basically backing Treliving into a corner to make a trade(s) to improve the forward group.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Disagree with the bolded.

The most important thing is to develop these players to their high point, not just hurdle the lowest bar on the NHL club.

If bringing up Pelletier too quickly sets him back, then what was the point of being a bit better than the team's worst forward?

But the point is to audition him, give him 5-10 games as a reward and keep him up if he pops off. Is that going to stunt him?

Re: the Phillips undersized comments, that's all well and good if he's a wallflower who shies away from contact and doesn't play a hard game. But he's one of Stockton's grittiest players.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Disagree with the bolded.

The most important thing is to develop these players to their high point, not just hurdle the lowest bar on the NHL club.

If bringing up Pelletier too quickly sets him back, then what was the point of being a bit better than the team's worst forward?

I agree on Pelletier, but Phillips has been a pro for a while now. He's 23. He is what he is at this point.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Being a good PKer and being reliably 5 on 5 are different things.
Though I know you've watched the team WAY more than me, so not discounting your opinion. But I think people conflate being a good PKer and being good defensively.

10000%.

Massive, massive difference between being a great PK'er and being great defensively 5v5.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I didn't see anything from Gawdin or Ruzicka to tell me they are going to be anything more than tweeners.
I agree with others, it would be interesting to give Phillips a proper look.

Lewis-Gawdin-Richie looked a lot better than the 4th line with Richardson on it...

Really depends on what you do with Dube...

If Dube is playing center then you don't really have a role for Gawdin. But if Dube shifts back to wing then I think you have a space for Gawdin as your 4th line C.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

I wonder what are the prospects of a trade.

We're not trading any prospects.