George Floyds 4 YO niece shot while sleeping..

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Macman

This happened here yesterday.

Two shootings in Calgary on Thursday have left one man dead and another person in non-life-threatening condition, police say

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...line-1.6306799

Just because bad things do happen in Calgary, it does not mean the a US doesn't have a huge problem on a scale that isn't comparable. I think that it's also worth considering at least a portion of whatever problems we have are probably imported from the US.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So you are suggesting training murderers to be more accurate? Interesting strategy...

Why not? American gun culture and gun problems are not going anywhere in my lifetime, it’s time they took a different route. 400 million guns in the country, eliminating 1/2 of them still leaves 200 million guns out there.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A couple years ago, a bullet from a high-powered rifle passed through our bedroom and struck the wall behind our bed. Which was unnerving.

Was that in Woodbine?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Why not? American gun culture and gun problems are not going anywhere in my lifetime, it’s time they took a different route. 400 million guns in the country, eliminating 1/2 of them still leaves 200 million guns out there.

I'm not sure training criminals to shoot better is the cunning plan you think it is. They'll just be better equipped to shoot back at cops and politicians. I don't see it really reducing stray bullets, because they will tend not to be the type of person who cares.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Was that in Woodbine?

Cedarbrae. Just some high-spirited shenanigans on the Tsuu T’ina. Certainly not anything the police or city could do anything about, I learned.

One nice thing about the ring road is it provides a buffer from stray gunfire.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not sure training criminals to shoot better is the cunning plan you think it is. They'll just be better equipped to shoot back at cops and politicians. I don't see it really reducing stray bullets, because they will tend not to be the type of person who cares.

I'm only half serious on this, but I mean 15 years ago safe injection sites were scoffed at too.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Cedarbrae. Just some high-spirited shenanigans on the Tsuu T’ina. Certainly not anything the police or city could do anything about, I learned.

One nice thing about the ring road is it provides a buffer from stray gunfire.

That's not my first thought about the ring road. So it's sorta like a castle wall?

[Manhattanboy]

Guns are so much a part of the fabric of America, like cars. So I imagine most people view this kind of tragedy in the same vein as a fatal car accident.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Maybe when random bullets hit sleeping 4 years olds, you might start to think there is a gun problem in your country.

^ violent crime

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

^ violent crime

Right right, I forgot. It's never about the guns. Conceal and Carry on, America.

[Envitro]

Why is it so hard to understand that humans commit crime, and not inanimate objects?

Sure, the U.S. has a lot of guns, but they have a lot of inequality that drives violent crime too. Nobody ever wants to talk about the solutions for that, because it's a much more difficult problem to solve. Just blame the gun, because it's an easy knee-jerk reaction.

[jayswin]

Guns don't kill people, people do!!!!!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Why is it so hard to understand that humans commit crime, and not inanimate objects?

Sure, the U.S. has a lot of guns, but they have a lot of inequality that drives violent crime too. Nobody ever wants to talk about the solutions for that, because it's a much more difficult problem to solve. Just blame the gun, because it's an easy knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, there is a multitude of social issues in the US that will be the downfall of their country, but to shoe away gun culture while pointing at those is utterly foolish.

Other issues should be pointed at and worked on, but their fascination with and protection of gun rights is absolutely insane and something you simply don't see in the rest of the industrialized world. Why would you detract from that issue by pointing to issues that can be worked on independent of guns? Why? Because you own them and like them?

[Envitro]

Nice angry face at the end, it definitely helps anchor the argument.

What I own and like should have zero bearing in a logical discussion.

I'm just saying that at the end of the day, an inanimate object doesn't load itself with other inanimate objects (i.e. ammunition), doesn't have legs so it can't walk around and transport itself from place to place, and doesn't fire at humans or random victims all on its own.

The gun is effectively irrelevant when trying to understand why crime happens. Criminals don't commit crime because guns exist. It's an instrument of crime in the hands of a criminal, no different than a kitchen knife, bat, tire iron, or a rock.

Sure, it becomes deadly if misused or in the hands of a criminal rather than a lawful citizen.
But the same can be said about a pickup truck, a rental van, a semi-truck, or an airliner.

I'm just saying let's look at the underlying causes of violence and crime not just blame pieces of harmless metal and plastic. They only become harmful when in the hands of humans.

[btimbit]

It's not the guns themselves that are the problem, it's the culture around them. Culture and acceptance of owning and using them in the States is way too casual. Add gang violence into the mix and well, here we are.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It's not the guns themselves that are the problem, it's the culture around them. Culture and acceptance of owning and using them in the States is way too casual. Add gang violence into the mix and well, here we are.

Meh. The US is clearly fine with people dying for a multitude of reasons - covid, guns, medical costs, etc. Theyve decided that their so called freedoms are worth more than innocent people dying.

[RyZ]

We gotta hurry and get those police off the streets in high risk communities.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Nice angry face at the end, it definitely helps anchor the argument.

What I own and like should have zero bearing in a logical discussion.

I'm just saying that at the end of the day, an inanimate object doesn't load itself with other inanimate objects (i.e. ammunition), doesn't have legs so it can't walk around and transport itself from place to place, and doesn't fire at humans or random victims all on its own.

The gun is effectively irrelevant when trying to understand why crime happens. Criminals don't commit crime because guns exist. It's an instrument of crime in the hands of a criminal, no different than a kitchen knife, bat, tire iron, or a rock.

Sure, it becomes deadly if misused or in the hands of a criminal rather than a lawful citizen.
But the same can be said about a pickup truck, a rental van, a semi-truck, or an airliner.

I'm just saying let's look at the underlying causes of violence and crime not just blame pieces of harmless metal and plastic. They only become harmful when in the hands of humans.

That's such a cop out argument. How many drive by shootings, or 4 year olds getting hit by random bullets does the UK have compared to the US? You will find very very few, because they have strict gun laws. If you think that having similar gun laws in the US wouldn't drastically reduce violent deaths in the US, then it's not even worth having a conversation, because you aren't living within the realm of reality. You think if the Vegas shooter only had access to knives the same number of people would be dead, because he'd throw them off the roof? Guns enable and amplify the level of violence attainable. Ya, sure, a gun on it's own does nothing. But that argument is irrelevant.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

When coal gas ovens went out of style, suicide rates plummeted. Ovens don't kill people, people kill people.

It's almost as if making inanimate objects that can kill more difficult to get reduces the rate of death.

I've seen a keynote speech from a former president of the CHMA who said that any inconvenience someone who wants to commit suicide experiences drastically reduces their desire to actually kill themselves.

By reducing the opportunity for gun violence would reduce gun violence.

The question is: is society cool with gun violence as the opportunity cost to have a prevalent gun culture?

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's such a cop out argument. How many drive by shootings, or 4 year olds getting hit by random bullets does the UK have compared to the US? You will find very very few, because they have strict gun laws. If you think that having similar gun laws in the US wouldn't drastically reduce violent deaths in the US, then it's not even worth having a conversation, because you aren't living within the realm of reality. You think if the Vegas shooter only had access to knives the same number of people would be dead, because he'd throw them off the roof? Guns enable and amplify the level of violence attainable. Ya, sure, a gun on it's own does nothing. But that argument is irrelevant.

Introducing those gun laws into the U.S now would help, but also wouldn’t change the fact there are too many guns in that country to count. Doubt they would mostly be turned in or destroyed.

In other countries where gun laws were introduced, the level of firearms circulating wasn’t anywhere close to what the U.S is dealing with, making those laws pretty effective.