Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I may be wrong, but I believe bonuses are only available for ELCs and 35+ year old players.

Performance bonuses yes. Signing bonuses no.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Performance bonuses yes. Signing bonuses no.

But signing bonuses are part of the cap and guaranteed. It’s not additional money per se, which is what the poster was likely suggesting.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But signing bonuses are part of the cap and guaranteed. It’s not additional money per se, which is what the poster was likely suggesting.


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No, I think he was thinking more about a Nylander like structure.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You have no idea what Johnny wants. You assume he doesn’t want to stay here but he has said the contrary many times.

Your point was if there was a $9M offer on the table it would be done. I countered with the same scenario about Landeskog. I bet there was a 7x8 deal on the table for a long time before he signed it.

I remember you called Johnny a 70pt player and seemed pretty confident he had peaked yet here he is having his best season while adding the element of being a 200ft player. Maybe you are just wrong with some of your assumptions on Gaudreau?

The difference is Landeskog really wanted to stay and took a discount to stay. Its not the same scenario because Landeskog was likely getting lowballed. If the Avs were offering him market value from the start he probably would have been signed early.

I fully expect Johnny to test the open market and why wouldn't he? It's the biggest decision of his life and everyone likes options. Flames fans just have to hope there aren't a ton of enticing offers out there.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The difference is Landeskog really wanted to stay and took a discount to stay. Its not the same scenario because Landeskog was likely getting lowballed. If the Avs were offering him market value from the start he probably would have been signed early.

I fully expect Johnny to test the open market and why wouldn't he? It's the biggest decision of his life and everyone likes options. Flames fans just have to hope there aren't a ton of enticing offers out there.

Plus Landeskog was being offered only 8 x 6M by Colorado. It was only raised to $7M at the very end.


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[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The difference is Landeskog really wanted to stay and took a discount to stay. Its not the same scenario because Landeskog was likely getting lowballed. If the Avs were offering him market value from the start he probably would have been signed early.

I fully expect Johnny to test the open market and why wouldn't he? It's the biggest decision of his life and everyone likes options. Flames fans just have to hope there aren't a ton of enticing offers out there.

What do you mean the difference is Landeskog wants to stay? Johnny has been saying for a while that he wants to stay here. I am not saying Johnny will take a huge discount but 8x9.5 would require 7x10.8 to match the dollars. I can really only think of the Devils who would consider throwing that much money at Johnny but we can’t discount them as a huge threat due to their geography and young talent.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What do you mean the difference is Landeskog wants to stay? Johnny has been saying for a while that he wants to stay here. I am not saying Johnny will take a huge discount but 8x9.5 would require 7x10.8 to match the dollars. I can really only think of the Devils who would consider throwing that much money at Johnny but we can’t discount them as a huge threat due to their geography and young talent.

The difference is, Landeskog wanted to stay as long as the money was reasonable and not insulting. He left millions on the table and received better offers to leave. Stamkos was in the same boat.

I think Johnny is willing to stay as long as he get's paid. He's not taking a discount to stay.

That's a big difference. Colorado was able to get a good discount with Landeskog. He had no intention of leaving.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The difference is, Landeskog wanted to stay as long as the money was reasonable and not insulting. He left millions on the table and received better offers to leave. Stamkos was in the same boat.

I think Johnny is willing to stay as long as he get's paid. He's not taking a discount to stay.

That's a big difference. Colorado was able to get a good discount with Landeskog. He had no intention of leaving.

Again the difference is simply your assumption with not one shred of actual knowledge. Maybe you are right but maybe your wrong. Simply no reason to believe you unless you can provide some legitimate evidence

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The difference is Landeskog really wanted to stay and took a discount to stay. Its not the same scenario because Landeskog was likely getting lowballed. If the Avs were offering him market value from the start he probably would have been signed early.

I fully expect Johnny to test the open market and why wouldn't he? It's the biggest decision of his life and everyone likes options. Flames fans just have to hope there aren't a ton of enticing offers out there.

The other difference is that the Av's still had McKinnon and Rantanan if Landeskog left, JG leaves and the Flames have lost their biggest offensive threat, Av's weren't totally screwed if he left.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fire

8yrs x $11 is my max, but even at that figure I think it makes it very unlikely the Flames could build a Stanley Cup winner.

Damn $88M is pretty high. I would probably still sign him to that, but I would hold my nose doing that.

Fair compensation for him IMO is $9.50-$10.25 on max deal.

He's a high point producer, but not a C, and with limited playoff success so he's not really in the $11M+ range IMO.

The guy is a cornerstone of the club though, and sometimes you need to pay a premium for that too. Hence why I say I'd still do $11MM per.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The difference is, Landeskog wanted to stay as long as the money was reasonable and not insulting. He left millions on the table and received better offers to leave. Stamkos was in the same boat.

I think Johnny is willing to stay as long as he get's paid. He's not taking a discount to stay.

That's a big difference. Colorado was able to get a good discount with Landeskog. He had no intention of leaving.

I think you can rest assured that Gaudreau will get paid no matter where he signs.

This assertion that the Flames will have to overpay to keep him is a dubious one. If that was the case, there has been no indication of it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What do you mean the difference is Landeskog wants to stay? Johnny has been saying for a while that he wants to stay here. I am not saying Johnny will take a huge discount but 8x9.5 would require 7x10.8 to match the dollars. I can really only think of the Devils who would consider throwing that much money at Johnny but we can’t discount them as a huge threat due to their geography and young talent.

We know Landeskog wanted to be in Colorado as his first priority. The fact he took less than market value to stay proves that. Is Johnny going to take less than market value? I highly doubt it. The Avs are also the number one cup favorite going into the season. Of course Landeskog would want to stay. Flames dont have that same advantage.

So I feel like right now the Flames have likely made competitive offers to Johnny and he hasn't signed, and that likely means he wants to test free agency. Doesn't mean he won't sign or has no interest, but I think it points to him wanting to see what his options are. I don't think Landeskog went to free agency to see his options. He went to free agency because the Avs were low balling him. That is the difference in my opinion.

[Hack&Lube]

So for next year if we can dump these UFAs:

Pitlick - $1.75M
Zadorov - $3.75M
Gudbrandson - $1.95M

That's $7.45M there to play with and maybe give $4-$5M to Gaudreau and use the rest for Vallimaki and plugs.

Can we then wait for Monahan's $6.375M and Lucic's $5.25M to expire after next year to sign Tkachuk after his RFA? That's $11.625M in cap that comes back after Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So for next year if we can dump these UFAs:

Pitlick - $1.75M
Zadorov - $3.75M
Gudbrandson - $1.95M

That's $7.45M there to play with and maybe give $4-$5M to Gaudreau and use the rest for Vallimaki and plugs.

Can we then wait for Monahan's $6.375M and Lucic's $5.25M to expire after next year to sign Tkachuk after his RFA? That's $11.625M in cap that comes back after Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

We can totally do that if, and only if, those two players want to stay here. That is the 20 million dollar question that, seemingly, won't be answered anytime soon.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So for next year if we can dump these UFAs:

Pitlick - $1.75M
Zadorov - $3.75M
Gudbrandson - $1.95M

That's $7.45M there to play with and maybe give $4-$5M to Gaudreau and use the rest for Vallimaki and plugs.

Can we then wait for Monahan's $6.375M and Lucic's $5.25M to expire after next year to sign Tkachuk after his RFA? That's $11.625M in cap that comes back after Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

Tkachuk is due a contract next year, not the year after. And the qualifying offer is $9M.

Also, if you dump those contracts you have to replace the players, since they are all regulars. Valimaki replaced one D. I suppose you could try Mackey as the other and a rookie to replace Pitlick. But they still make some money, not zero.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So for next year if we can dump these UFAs:

Pitlick - $1.75M
Zadorov - $3.75M
Gudbrandson - $1.95M

That's $7.45M there to play with and maybe give $4-$5M to Gaudreau and use the rest for Vallimaki and plugs.

Can we then wait for Monahan's $6.375M and Lucic's $5.25M to expire after next year to sign Tkachuk after his RFA? That's $11.625M in cap that comes back after Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

That's assuming we don't go out and immediately sign other UFAs to similar contracts, as has been known to happen.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Again the difference is simply your assumption with not one shred of actual knowledge. Maybe you are right but maybe your wrong. Simply no reason to believe you unless you can provide some legitimate evidence

Well, it's based on what the media was reporting at the time.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think you can rest assured that Gaudreau will get paid no matter where he signs.

This assertion that the Flames will have to overpay to keep him is a dubious one. If that was the case, there has been no indication of it.

I didn't say he had to get overpaid, I said he won't sign for a discount, like Landeskog did. Calgary will need to pay whatever the going rate will be IMO. I don't think we have any idea what that is, but I think we will find out.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

We know Landeskog wanted to be in Colorado as his first priority. The fact he took less than market value to stay proves that. Is Johnny going to take less than market value? I highly doubt it. The Avs are also the number one cup favorite going into the season. Of course Landeskog would want to stay. Flames dont have that same advantage.

So I feel like right now the Flames have likely made competitive offers to Johnny and he hasn't signed, and that likely means he wants to test free agency. Doesn't mean he won't sign or has no interest, but I think it points to him wanting to see what his options are. I don't think Landeskog went to free agency to see his options. He went to free agency because the Avs were low balling him. That is the difference in my opinion.

Why are you asking if Johnny is taking less than market value? Attempt to move the goalposts? Never once said he needed to sign a discount here. In the post of line you quoted I stated a Flames offer of 9.5M over 8 years would need another team to come in at 10.8M per to match the total $.

Pretty much everything you posted is an assumption. Here are some of mine

1. I believe Johnny when he says he wants to play his career here and he loves it here
2. I believe Gaudreau and his family have been treated extremely well and I believe they have loyalty and gratitude toward the organization for drafting him
3. I do not believe Johnny will just chase the cash so I do not see Seattle, or Arizona as a legit contender to get him nor would either franchise commit $11M+ long term for him
4. Maybe Johnny does plan to rest the market but that doesn’t mean he won’t do exactly what Landeskog did and sign an 8 year deal on the eve of free agency while he still can.
5. For all we know they have a framework figured out and are bickering over bonuses, clauses, and the finer points.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

So for next year if we can dump these UFAs:

Pitlick - $1.75M
Zadorov - $3.75M
Gudbrandson - $1.95M

That's $7.45M there to play with and maybe give $4-$5M to Gaudreau and use the rest for Vallimaki and plugs.

Can we then wait for Monahan's $6.375M and Lucic's $5.25M to expire after next year to sign Tkachuk after his RFA? That's $11.625M in cap that comes back after Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

Don't we still have to dress three skaters to replace them? that's a minimum 3 MM, only leaves you 4.5MM to play with, or am I missing something?