[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

So now what? We wait 11 years until the Flames lease is up and go through another ten thousand rounds of this crap again, only to see it fall apart?

It’s like how the province treats the Green Line.

[Major Major]

Well, another early playoff exit. Cover up the solar panels and we'll see you all back here in September!

[powderjunkie]

I find it noteworthy that the initial vote in July 2019 had to be somewhat rushed or wait until council returned from summer break. (I still think they could have managed a few more dotted i's and crossed t's - ultimately it may not have mattered, but might have at least made it harder to claim these red herrings).

Now this all played out over two of the hardest weeks to get much business done around Xmas and New Years.

Sonya Sharp from the Braid article:

Sharp insists Gondek should not have gone public immediately after receiving the crucial phone call from Flames majority owner Murray Edwards about the cancellation.

“It was the mayor’s responsibility to speak to council before any sort of decision is made, or before going into the public with it,” says the councillor.

“Dealing with something as significant as a partner pulling out of an event centre deal, we need to have a special meeting.”

She seems to acknowledge that CSEC did the pulling out, but wishes the city hustled back to the table and beg for a pregancy?

[FranksandBean]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Do you really think there exists ANY owner, or potential owners that would undertake 100% at their own cost the building of a sports only arena in Calgary, where they would get no other event and therefore no other revenue?

Those investors don't exist. That's one thing that will NEVER happen.

I don’t disagree with you but believe it would be less than $600M, and if that is the case then they should shut up and accept what the city is willing to offer. If they want a better return then invest in better areas, otherwise thank the best deal you can get and move on.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

She seems to acknowledge that CSEC did the pulling out, but wishes the city hustled back to the table and beg for a pregancy?

You do love your allegory. Shootings, pulling outs, pregnancies....

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, that’s what she was told and rightly or wrongly she was trying to get out ahead of it.

Kenney’s comments just show a lack of understanding of how the deal even worked. So he should just say “too bad”. If he wants to make a pro-business comment, whatever. Now he’s opened himself up to be corrected (again).

I'm told her assistant Carter pushed her to send the tweets right away.

I have also heard some question the way this dude operates.

[ComixZone]

Wrong thread.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If he blamed the Flames some of you would be good with it


City losing a major building project and potentially an NHL team is his business

Flames have an 80+M payrolll (tax payers) and they employ hundreds of Albertans

Not that he will be in charge by the time either way

If he cared so much why didn't he offer provencial funds to bridge the gap?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

If he cared so much why didn't he offer provencial funds to bridge the gap?

covid economy.

because while he can't run the province, he's not quite that stupid politically.

I think he'd lose more than a few votes if he gave the arena deal money while so many people and businesses are hurting.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1478725033048555532

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1478725033048555532

Congrats to all those who voted for this glorious woke Mayor ��

I don't live in Calgary, but if the Saddledom suffers any structure problem the town will be pretty dead without it and the team.

Sounds like the city has a mayor/council that is a lot like the disaster we have here in Victoria. It's been 4 years or anti business socialist garbage. Next they will be spending all your tax dollars on bike lanes and homeless hotels.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The 2017 election had a mild, implicit threat of the Flames future if we didn't elect Bill Smith, but I would think we're trending toward the 2025 election being an explicit "give us the Edmonton deal, or better, or we're gone" election. So ####ing boring, but I suspect Murray sees Gondek as far weaker than Nenshi and he'll be able to get his puppet in this time.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Congrats to all those who voted for this glorious woke Mayor ��

I don't live in Calgary, but if the Saddledom suffers any structure problem the town will be pretty dead without it and the team.

Sounds like the city has a mayor/council that is a lot like the disaster we have here in Victoria. It's been 4 years or anti business socialist garbage. Next they will be spending all your tax dollars on bike lanes and homeless hotels.

Tell us your an a**hole without telling us you're an a**hole.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

covid economy.

because while he can't run the province, he's not quite that stupid politically.

I think he'd lose more than a few votes if he gave the arena deal money while so many people and businesses are hurting.

Yet Edmonton received provincial funding for their arena. Seems unfair that the province turns into tightwads in the Flames time of need.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The 2017 election had a mild, implicit threat of the Flames future if we didn't elect Bill Smith, but I would think we're trending toward the 2025 election being an explicit "give us the Edmonton deal, or better, or we're gone" election. So ####ing boring, but I suspect Murray sees Gondek as far weaker than Nenshi and he'll be able to get his puppet in this time.

Agreed. This whole thing looks like a political play, and I could see Gondek get trounced next election with this being a primary driver uniting big $$ on the other side for whoever is hand picked to run against.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Congrats to all those who voted for this glorious woke Mayor ��

I don't live in Calgary, but if the Saddledom suffers any structure problem the town will be pretty dead without it and the team.

Sounds like the city has a mayor/council that is a lot like the disaster we have here in Victoria. It's been 4 years or anti business socialist garbage. Next they will be spending all your tax dollars on bike lanes and homeless hotels.

Lol you're a caricature. Go back into your hole little man!

Damn socialists are coming for ma hockey too!!

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Yet Edmonton received provincial funding for their arena. Seems unfair that the province turns into tightwads in the Flames time of need.

again, they did not.

The used infrastructure money that was already provided to the city and the city chose to use it towards the arena.

They received no funds from the government to build an arena.

Calgary could have done the exact same at any time.

ok, I took a quick google.
"The city is paying almost $313 million with much of that coming from a so-called community revitalization levy, which will see a portion of downtown property taxes redirected to the project. "

either way, the Alberta Government gave nothing for the project.

the only money your taxes might have paid is "The Federal Government is funding $7-million through the Federal Gas Tax.", and that wasn't for the arena but as part of the downtown community arena that your team isn't even bothering to add to their project.

[-TC-]

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...rys-arena-deal

One opinion.. trust of Gondek a major factor in what's played out. Too much risk that the goalposts would be moved again..

My gut says Calgarians will rue the day Gondek became mayor. Her election could have long term negative implications to Calgary, much like electing Iveson has for Edmonton.

This is a very unfortunate situation, one that didn't have to happen, and I don't see a scenario whereby the CSEC comes back to the table. The one chance is if they can find someone to broker the deal and leave Gondek out of it, unfortunately her position of being against it entirely (she voted against it before) precludes that small chance and negates almost any opportunity for success.

Say what you will of the funding model for the Edmonton arena, it's proving to be a huge catalyst for growth and revitalization in dt Edmonton. That means, in the end, everyone gets paid, jobs are created, densification occurs, it means a more robust and sustainable city. Those are all good things.

Calgary could have had that too, if not for electing a zealot as mayor.


EDIT: Just a bit of context. I work with the public sector and contracts play a big part in what I do. I also work with the Edmonton Oilers (mods happy to inform, just not publicly) and have quite a bit of background in this area. The most important thing in a contract negotiation is the trust that all parties are acting in good faith. Without that, there can be no constructive negotiation. That's what failed here. The CSEC took a look at council and Gondek in particular and decided she posed a significant risk and couldn't be trusted to act in good faith.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by -TC-

My gut says Calgarians will rue the day Gondek became mayor. Her election could have long term negative implications to Calgary, much like electing Iveson has for Edmonton.

I live in Edmonton and lots of people love Iveson here. People generally appreciate his track record.

You're going to have to explain this one.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by -TC-

Say what you will of the funding model for the Edmonton arena, it's proving to be a huge catalyst for growth and revitalization in dt Edmonton. That means, in the end, everyone gets paid, jobs are created, densification occurs, it means a more robust and sustainable city. Those are all good things.

Calgary could have had that too, if not for electing a zealot as mayor.

to be fair, Edmonton needed help with downtown a zillion times more than Calgary does. That's not a good argument.