[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Eubee]

Originally Posted by browna

He bought the team under certain financial conditions, even though he was a fan. He said day 1 for it to make financial sense for him long term, the team needed a new building. If those conditions weren't met/was being ignored, he'd then have to explore all options at his disposal.

That day, every fan and probably Edmonton city councilor had delusions of mutiple Cup parties on Whyte, now being a cap team (forgetting Lowe was still in charge and driving the club into the toilet) and dimissed or at least kicked the arena issue can down the road for another day... assuming Katz wouldn't really dispose of a team he liked so much in a few years.

However when he started actually following through on his promise to get cooperation for building for it to make the finaical sense that he personally needed and stated from the start, and got nowhere with the powers that be in the City of Edmonton, he made the Seattle trip, annoying/shocking all those that didn't listen to him that first day.

And not even a response or a ‘thanks for answering my condescending jackass question’.

Thanks Browna for the response. It doesn’t hurt that you are close friends with someone who worked directly on the Katz PR campaign for the arena, who said that his Seattle ‘plan’, right down to the apology article at the end, was basically written well before he threatened to move the team.

[SeeGeeWhy]

It would have been legitimately newsworthy if this went through without Edwards using tactics like these. Gondek overreacted by going public IMO.

Is anyone privy to the climate change considerations? The ice plant and heating would be big energy consumers. Slapping some PV on the roof isn’t going to cut it. Why not tie in utility steam to the Enmax plant, use local company Clean O2 to capture carbon from gas fired boilers and look at piloting their new system that will be able to couple to gas fired cogen units to supply electricity to the refrigeration?

[dino7c]

They need to get this done or the Calgary 88's are as good as gone

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They need to get this done or the Calgary 88's are as good as gone

What a time period... Had season tickets and loved going to the games. One day, went to the game to discover the game was canceled/ league folded. Pre-internet had no way of knowing...

[Strange Brew]

Sidney Lowe, Chip Engelland loved the 88’s. For a while my old high school coach was their head coach.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sidney Lowe, Chip Engelland loved the 88’s. For a while my old high school coach was their head coach.

Perry Young, Jerry Stroman
It’s amazing how well I remember those teams
League had a height limit which was weird but made for good basketball

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Is anyone privy to the climate change considerations? The ice plant and heating would be big energy consumers. Slapping some PV on the roof isn’t going to cut it. Why not tie in utility steam to the Enmax plant, use local company Clean O2 to capture carbon from gas fired boilers and look at piloting their new system that will be able to couple to gas fired cogen units to supply electricity to the refrigeration?

Global News had a piece on how there were 70+ conditions as part of it's approval by Planning Commission. I decided to take a look at the full list to see what else might have not been fully costed in the latest $634M estimate of total cost. Here's a link to the Conditions of Approval

Item 54 relates to mandatory district energy:

As described in the Calgary Event Centre Greenhouse Gas Mitigation Assessment (October 15, 2021), connection to the Neighbourhood District Energy Network was found to deliver an improvement in energy source consumption, reductions in GHG emissions, and annual cost savings. As the Report further identified this as the preferred option, the facility shall receive thermal energy for space heating from the neighbourhood district energy facility as is proposed, to the satisfaction of the Development Authority.

I'm not a mechanical engineer - but I would guess that district energy as a heating source for an arena is probably more expensive upfront than traditional methods. So I wonder if this is part of the ~$4M in "climate change" costs currently cited..... It seems cheap, so I'd guess - no? Leaving us back to the fundamental problem of i) is it in the $634M and if not ii) who pays for it?

[powderjunkie]

Again, it might have been wise to spend more than 4 business days to consider the proposal and achieve a bit more clarity on some these items.

Obviously you'll never get everything nailed down in advance, but the more the better.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Goriders

What are you talking about. I was mad because the feds are printing money like drunken sailers and devaluing the dollar. Thus inflating the cost of everything. Including the arena.

I wasn’t debating anyone either. I don’t think you can actually debate that anyway.

I'm sure Murray and all the Flames owners have gotten more than a fair share of that money. Even outside of the pandemic funds, the government has subsidized a bunch of their other businesses.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Perry Young, Jerry Stroman
It’s amazing how well I remember those teams
League had a height limit which was weird but made for good basketball

"Another 3 point Chip shot!" - Chip Engelland

[jaydub74]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm sure Murray and all the Flames owners have gotten more than a fair share of that money. Even outside of the pandemic funds, the government has subsidized a bunch of their other businesses.

Not to mention Edwards picked up and left Canada a few years ago to avoid taxes. I believe he's now a UK resident for tax purposes.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

Not to mention Edwards picked up and left Canada a few years ago to avoid taxes. I believe he's now a UK resident for tax purposes.

He actually moved from the UK to Switzerland last year. I suspect taxes were again the reason.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

He actually moved from the UK to Switzerland last year. I suspect taxes were again the reason.

Sounds like he's a guy who likes to sip the cream and then skip the payment.

Kinda like a Dine and Dash.

Can't stand him, his business ethics or much else (other than his now ex, who was quite lovely).

[timun]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I'm not a mechanical engineer - but I would guess that district energy as a heating source for an arena is probably more expensive upfront than traditional methods. So I wonder if this is part of the ~$4M in "climate change" costs currently cited..... It seems cheap, so I'd guess - no?

I am a mechanical engineer who does this for a living. (And no, I'm not working on this project, but I used to work with the guys who are designing it.)

No, hooking into the district heating system is not more expensive than the building having its own boiler plant. All that happens is that the high-pressure, high-temperature water from the district plant is fed to one or two heat exchangers, stepping down to a lower pressure and temperature. The rest of the pumping and piping of heating water through the building is no different.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Sounds like he's a guy who likes to sip the cream and then skip the payment.

Kinda like a Dine and Dash.

Can't stand him, his business ethics or much else (other than his now ex, who was quite lovely).

I am not sure I would criticize anyone would wants to minimize his taxes.


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[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I am not sure I would criticize anyone would wants to minimize his taxes.


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No kidding when you see a billion just flung over to the PM’s buddies. Or $6B just “lost” under the Environment Minister.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The NBA in Calgary is as likely as the NHL in El Paso or Tucson.

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[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

I said shortlist, Calgary is routinely ranked only under Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for Canadian cities in best places to live lists. It's far cheaper then those other cities with less taxes, it's very close to Banff and Lake Louise, has world class Golf Courses nearby, the Stampede and a sports hungry population. Would be a good middle point between a new Vancouver team and Toronto AND Edmonton up the road to come fill out the Arena for games.

Why Calgary over Edmonton? Calgary has better weather and a better location and higher population and we all know Edmonton is a brick of a city. Other then West Ed or an Oilers game is there ANY reason to go there? Anything we don't already have and better?

Yeah, Calgary isn't on the top of the list, but it's the third Canadian city on the list, possibly second depending on how interested ownership groups are in Quebec and Calgary.

Have some civic pride. This is an incredible city and has the population and interest to handle an NBA team, outdoor CFL games sell out in winter weather, why wouldn't an NBA team sell out?

I hope everyone finds a way to channel their negativity, this is a terribly toxic server so far.

I’m trying as hard as I can, but somehow I can’t imagine the Stampede being much of a factor in attracting NBA talent.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

Not to mention Edwards picked up and left Canada a few years ago to avoid taxes. I believe he's now a UK resident for tax purposes.

Even that wasn’t enough. He’s ####ed off out of the UK as well. He’s like Sid Sneer on acid.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I am not sure I would criticize anyone would wants to minimize his taxes.


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I too am on team billionaire. I mean one day I too could be a billionaire and able to buy homes all over the world so I can claim residency wherever benefits me most. Sure it might mean my country is missing out on a bunch of tax dollars, but one day it could be me.