[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'd be way more proud to be a city who told team owners to go #### themselves when it came to corporate welfare.

and then do what? The Flames are the central part of any civic pride in the city. Without it, it's just a large Lethbridge.

It is THE show in town

Crazy to see that people are so willing to say goodbye to The Flames over what will have next to zero negative effect on their lives if the project moves forward tax dollar wise.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'd be way more proud to be a city who told team owners to go #### themselves when it came to corporate welfare.

I hear Seattle is looking for residents? Oh wait. They took that "principled" stance only to watch the Supersonics leave town, and they've been doing everything in their power to attract the NBA back since. Sometimes that "principled" stance is just a stupid stance, and you don't realize how bad the decision was until you notice people staring at you because you've just sliced your own nose off.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

and then do what? The Flames are the central part of any civic pride in the city. Without it, it's just a large Lethbridge.

It is THE show in town

Crazy to see that people are so willing to say goodbye to The Flames over what will have next to zero negative effect on their lives if the project moves forward tax dollar wise.

I know you like to put down Calgary as much as you can to reaffirm your personal decision to leave, but the Flames are not central to civic pride. They're just a sports team.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'd be way more proud to be a city who told team owners to go #### themselves when it came to corporate welfare.

I am just saying the whole ordeal is just sad.

[Mephisto]

Oof - this is bad news. Seems weird CSEC would walk away over $10 million or whatever - I'm sure there could have been some agreement had with the city if they kept negotiating. The costs for this are probably significantly escalated or uncertain (maybe moreso than is public) and combined with the uncertain revenue outlook they probably decided to pull the plug.

With respect to everyone piling on Gondek - is she the one actually negotiating directly with CSEC? I find it hard to believe that she has absolute authority to have caused this.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by nik-

I know you like to put down Calgary as much as you can to reaffirm your personal decision to leave, but the Flames are not central to civic pride. They're just a sports team.

I'd take it a step further and it's anecdotal, I know, but from my perspective I feel like the Flames are *less* central to civic pride than say the Oilers are to Edmonton or the Jets to Winnipeg because there's more going on in this city.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

and then do what? The Flames are the central part of any civic pride in the city. Without it, it's just a large Lethbridge.

It is THE show in town

Crazy to see that people are so willing to say goodbye to The Flames over what will have next to zero negative effect on their lives if the project moves forward tax dollar wise.

Omg dude, we won't turn into a desolate wasteland without an NHL team...talk about dramatic.

And they are not leaving any time soon. The Flames are profitable here, even a bone-headed billionaire can see that moving would be a terrible business decision.

[the_only_turek_fan]

The one thing I would love to put some thought into one day is why conservatives (myself included) are ok with public money going to sports arenas.

Seems like an interesting research idea.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I hear Seattle is looking for residents? Oh wait. They took that "principled" stance only to watch the Supersonics leave town, and they've been doing everything in their power to attract the NBA back since. Sometimes that "principled" stance is just a stupid stance, and you don't realize how bad the decision was until you notice people staring at you because you've just sliced your own nose off.

You mean the team that was bought by Clay Bennett, Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward with the intention of moving from Seattle from day one? The new ownership group that outright lied to the NBA and supersonic fans about keeping the team in Seatle? You mean the guys that didn't care about the lease at KeyArena?

Yeah, screw those guys too.

Seattle still has claim to all the Supersonic history, logos, etc etc etc. They're getting another team soon, they'll be an expansion team. If that's what happens to the Flames then so be it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

and then do what? The Flames are the central part of any civic pride in the city. Without it, it's just a large Lethbridge.

It is THE show in town

Crazy to see that people are so willing to say goodbye to The Flames over what will have next to zero negative effect on their lives if the project moves forward tax dollar wise.

Well most of the ones willing to say goodbye to the Flames so easily also just happen to be the ones who are on the board to stir the pot and cause drama. Coincidence? I think not.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by nik-

I know you like to put down Calgary as much as you can to reaffirm your personal decision to leave, but the Flames are not central to civic pride. They're just a sports team.

Except they really are. It is part of the tribalism of associating oneself with the larger community. If it were not for the sports teams and the rivalry, would there be as much hate between Calgary and Edmonton? No. It would be no different than the relationship between Calgary and Lethbridge or Medicine Hat. But the second you toss in that tribalism associated with team competition, well, the pride takes on a whole new dimension. I don't ever recall the citizens throwing on their library jersey, or slapping a library flag on their car, or having impromptu parades down streets when the library was opened or received a new shipment of books. But I do recall amazing moments of civic pride when the Flames won big games or playoff series. The team is part and parcel of the allure of big cities and is one of the big reasons cities have reputations and tribal pride.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The one thing I would love to put some thought into one day is why conservatives (myself included) are ok with public money going to sports arenas.

Seems like an interesting research idea.

I think it's more to do with corporate welfare and social welfare then giving money to arenas. Trickle down seems to be ingrained into conservative fiscal approach.


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[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I hear Seattle is looking for residents? Oh wait. They took that "principled" stance only to watch the Supersonics leave town, and they've been doing everything in their power to attract the NBA back since. Sometimes that "principled" stance is just a stupid stance, and you don't realize how bad the decision was until you notice people staring at you because you've just sliced your own nose off.

Seattle will get another team when they do their next round of expansion, it's virtually a given. The NBA hasn't had any relocation candidates, or rich Seattle owners looking to pull a Clay Bennett (the Clippers were the only possibility, and Balmer prefers living in SoCal obviously). Also, speaking of Bennett, the city of Seattle could have given him a free arena with the most ridiculous perks and he still would have moved. His intentions were never to keep the team in Seattle.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The one thing I would love to put some thought into one day is why conservatives (myself included) are ok with public money going to sports arenas.

Seems like an interesting research idea.

It shouldn’t be difficult to articulate why you’re okay having your tax dollars go to a for-profit arena but not to any other public infrastructure?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except they really are. It is part of the tribalism of associating oneself with the larger community. If it were not for the sports teams and the rivalry, would there be as much hate between Calgary and Edmonton? No. It would be no different than the relationship between Calgary and Lethbridge or Medicine Hat. But the second you toss in that tribalism associated with team competition, well, the pride takes on a whole new dimension. I don't ever recall the citizens throwing on their library jersey, or slapping a library flag on their car, or having impromptu parades down streets when the library was opened or received a new shipment of books. But I do recall amazing moments of civic pride when the Flames won big games or playoff series. The team is part and parcel of the allure of big cities and is one of the big reasons cities have reputations and tribal pride.

Literally nothing you wrote here indicates a team being central to civic pride. Should have just saved your time.

Just another person who doesn't live here telling us why we like our city

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well most of the ones willing to say goodbye to the Flames so easily also just happen to be the ones who are on the board to stir the pot and cause drama. Coincidence? I think not.

Do the people who aren’t affected one way or another, because they don’t live here, care if they’re watching the Calgary Flames on TV or the Houston Flames?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

and then do what? The Flames are the central part of any civic pride in the city. Without it, it's just a large Lethbridge.

It is THE show in town

Crazy to see that people are so willing to say goodbye to The Flames over what will have next to zero negative effect on their lives if the project moves forward tax dollar wise.

You are deluded if you think a hockey team is that important to a city of 1.5 million. If the Flames move nothing will change for Calgary as whole, it will continue to grow and the impact to people will be virtually nil. The only change is that a small percentage of the city's top income earners will have to find something else to spend their money on

[flamesfan6]

How about all those that are in favour of the city putting money into the deal, how about this instead:

The flames put a GoFundMe or Kickstarter to build their arena and put their funding goal as $300 million, and once that is reached they can start the building.

this way:
- You get to fund the building/billionaires with your money, like you want to (and if you are renting/living with parents/not paying property taxes you actually contribute)

- Taxpayers who do not support the deal don't have to have their money go into it

what do you get: a sticker that says you donated to the building (hey, it's more than you get when the city pays for it)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Do the people who aren’t affected one way or another, because they don’t live here, care if they’re watching the Calgary Flames on TV or the Houston Flames?

Absolutely. I don't live there and there is not a snowballs chance in hell I would cheer for the team if the relocated.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It shouldn’t be difficult to articulate why you’re okay having your tax dollars go to a for-profit arena but not to any other public infrastructure?

For the record I love public infrastructure. I don’t think the government does enough of it.