Pete Rose lies again - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

ricosuave · 03-17-2007, 09:12 PM

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Pete+...etect=&abc=abc

Big surprise.

Just go away, Pete, you're not getting in, alright?

moon · 03-17-2007, 10:05 PM

If baseball does the right thing and puts him in the Hall of Fame then perhaps he will go away because he story will lose a ton of steam.

Now that he has admitted that he bet on games the only thing left to talk about is the fact that he isn't in the Hall of Fame.

People like to say that it isn't the Hall of Really Good and many people shouldn't be in based on that. Well at the same time it isn't the Hall of Great Guys either. If we are worried about what people did off the field that didn't affect their play but meant they were bad people there are a bunch of dudes that should be kicked out.

Resolute 14 · 03-17-2007, 10:27 PM

Except that his off the field negativity was directly related to the game of baseball, and impacts its credibility.

Rose was given a lifetime ban, he deserves the lifetime ban, and the sooner he goes away, the better.

Caged Great · 03-18-2007, 01:45 AM

If it was the hall of great guys, Ty Cobb certainly wouldn't be a member...

CrusaderPi · 03-18-2007, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If it was the hall of great guys, Ty Cobb certainly wouldn't be a member...

I hate that argument. Cobb was a grade A jerk too be sure. But did nothing that actually damaged the game of baseball. His problems should be left for, you know, the justice system to figure out. What Rose did, and what the 8 men out did, hurt the game.

moon · 03-18-2007, 10:26 AM

What did Rose do as a player that hurt the game?

At best as a manager he bet on baseball. No evidence that he managed differently or tanked games. But as a player there is no evidence at all that he damaged the game and even if he did how does that matter? He didn't take steroids to cheat to get his hits. He didn't use a "spitball." He earned every single hit he got and deserves to be in the hall as a player.

Resolute 14 · 03-18-2007, 10:45 AM

The Hall of Fame isn't limited to a playing career. He risked damaging the credibility of the game by betting on the game. That is more than enough.

Any pitcher who used the spitball and is in the Hall did so when the spitball was legal.

That potential future hall of famers used steroids is a not a valid defense of Rose. While the game does need to take action to make sure such cheaters are denied access, if they make a mistake in this regard, it does not mean that leaving Rose out was not also a mistake.

Resolute 14 · 03-18-2007, 10:47 AM

One thing that you are convienently forgetting is that Rose knew the rules. He knew that betting on baseball = lifetime ban. It was his choice to do so, knowing full well what the consequences of getting caught would be.

transplant99 · 03-18-2007, 11:20 AM

He should be in the Hall.....no question about it.

And that story is ridiculous. I listened to that interview live with Patrick and Olberman, and Rose clarified a question that had been asked of him.

He has admitted his mistakes in the past and served his time. And the whole "life time" ban is a non-starter. If that was the case then MLB needs to explain why they used Rose IN stadiums when annuncing the top 100 of all time. Its convenient for them to use as they see fit? I think not.

JimmytheT · 03-18-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

The Hall of Fame isn't limited to a playing career. He risked damaging the credibility of the game by betting on the game. That is more than enough.

Any pitcher who used the spitball and is in the Hall did so when the spitball was legal.

That potential future hall of famers used steroids is a not a valid defense of Rose. While the game does need to take action to make sure such cheaters are denied access, if they make a mistake in this regard, it does not mean that leaving Rose out was not also a mistake.

Wrong. Gaylord Perry self-admittedly used a spitter throughout his hall of fame career (he of course admitted in retirement).
However, the only reason the spitball became illegal was during the 1919 influenza pandemic, to prevent flu transmission. Most pitchers who can effectively throw a spitter, say it is a very difficult pitch to throw, and if most pitchers tried it, they'd be throwing all kinds of crazy wild pitches.

habernac · 03-18-2007, 03:56 PM

He's never bet against his team. That would be the big one as far as I'm concerned. Who cares if he bet on his team? good for him! He thought they'd win all the time. My grandfather hated Pete Rose with a passion. Absolutely could not stand him. I asked him once if he belonged in the hall. "Absolutely" was his reply. "I don't care what he did off the field, he was a hell of a baseball player." I agree.

JiriHrdina · 03-18-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

He's never bet against his team.

Do we know that though.

Here's how things have gone.

Pete Rose denied ever betting
Then admitted to betting on baseball but NOT his team
Now he's admitted to betting on baseball AND his team

Not a far reach to suggest we still don't know the whole story and that he's not being 100% honest yet.

And that's my problem with Rose. If he just came clean years ago fine, but even now he is still in the process of revealing the truth, or at least his version of it.

bluejays · 03-18-2007, 06:42 PM

I'm only 24, and I'm not familiar with his play, but I heard he was a HOF worthy player. The thing is though, it's the court of public opinion, and his constant lying or bending of the truth really makes him an ass of a guy. Certainly Ty Cobb did some really boneheaded stuff (I remember reading how he'd sharpen his cleat spikes out in the open and slide in purposely to hurt his opposition), but at the end of the day, he did things to win without hurting the integrity of the game. How do we know that Pete Rose only bet on his team (in his latest version)? What happened when he was playing against the Yankees of his day? Would he be stupid enough to consistently bet in those situations? I think it seems very unrealistic. He's really backed himself into a corner this time by making these claims. I felt bad for him before when they first semi-instated him a few years ago at the all-star game, because he looked like a beat up man trying to make amends. This however, really really rubs people the wrong way and makes him look like somebody trying to get a rise out of the common man to thinking he was so confident in his team that he'd wage his own money on them. I call BS, and I'm sure most people do. I've made a 180 from that year he was introduced at the all-star game. He wants attention and to create a name for himself, let him be a legend in his own mind.

moon · 03-18-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm only 24, and I'm not familiar with his play, but I heard he was a HOF worthy player. The thing is though, it's the court of public opinion, and his constant lying or bending of the truth really makes him an ass of a guy. Certainly Ty Cobb did some really boneheaded stuff (I remember reading how he'd sharpen his cleat spikes out in the open and slide in purposely to hurt his opposition), but at the end of the day, he did things to win without hurting the integrity of the game. How do we know that Pete Rose only bet on his team (in his latest version)? What happened when he was playing against the Yankees of his day? Would he be stupid enough to consistently bet in those situations? I think it seems very unrealistic. He's really backed himself into a corner this time by making these claims. I felt bad for him before when they first semi-instated him a few years ago at the all-star game, because he looked like a beat up man trying to make amends. This however, really really rubs people the wrong way and makes him look like somebody trying to get a rise out of the common man to thinking he was so confident in his team that he'd wage his own money on them. I call BS, and I'm sure most people do. I've made a 180 from that year he was introduced at the all-star game. He wants attention and to create a name for himself, let him be a legend in his own mind.

There is no doubt he is HOF worthy, playwise.

Ty Cobb wasn't just an ass it has come out that he purposefully threw games as well, but he is already in and nobody really wants to take him out.

Plus it is a lot harder for people whp have grown up hearing how great he was as a player and thinking of him as legend to throw him out for news that came so late and in games that really didn't affect guys today.

I think one of the biggest things for Pete is that the people in charge are people that could have been affected by possible beats by Pete and they are pissed about that. Perhaps in the future when people are in charge that are not personally involved with Pete they will smarten up and put him in.

Snakeeye aside, I would say most media and regular joes that I have heard form believe that he should be in the HOF. They also agree that he is a loser and a jerk and deserves all the bad things that come to him.

JiriHrdina · 03-18-2007, 08:50 PM

Put his bat in the hall of fame as the all-time hits leader, but leave him out. It recognizes the achievement, without recognizing the man.

Sylvanfan · 03-18-2007, 10:58 PM

What did rose have like 4256 hits or something like that. To do that you need to have 21 straight seasons of more than 200 hits. That is one hell of an accomplishment. Play wise he's a shoe in Hall of Famer.

But until he comes clean and reveals everything than the Hall has the right to keep him out. Given that he's done time for tax evasion, and has a less that rosy reputation, I think he might just keep playing the sympathy card forever. Which is a shame.

corporatejay · 03-18-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Put his bat in the hall of fame as the all-time hits leader, but leave him out. It recognizes the achievement, without recognizing the man.

Great idea actually, never thought of that.

baseball lost a lot of credibility when the black sox threw the world series, as a result of that baseball has always maintained a ridiculously strong stance against betting on the sport (we won't see a team in LV any time soon).

Pete Rose knew the rules, he chose to break them he should pay the consequences.