[News] NHL not sending its players to the Olympics

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I would actually respect McDavid if he opted out to focus on being healthy for the team that is paying him $12.5 million this year. I imagine if he opted out, other players would too. He has the most pressure of any player to play in China.

Going on a general Olympics rant now. Having one country spending insane amounts of money host every event, for many sports that they don't even care about, is just not a great use of resources. There is much better use for the money. It's just a dick waving competition for the host country and a display of decadence.

They should change it so that the events are spread around and hosted by countries that already have the facilities and actually care about the sports being played. For example, in a winter Olympics, Norway could host the skiing events, Canada could host hockey, Russia could host bobsled, France or Japan could host figure skating, etc..., and you could switch up the countries every Olympics so several countries get turns. In the summer, you could have USA hosting track, England hosting soccer, Germany hosting rowing, China hosting gymnastics, South Africa hosting swimming, etc...

Spread out the costs and limit the need for having to build and maintain new facilities.

Or just #### can the Olympics and focus on things like World Championships which in many sports is held in higher regard than the Olympics.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Or just #### can the Olympics and focus on things like World Championships which in many sports is held in higher regard than the Olympics.

What sport holds a world championship above an Olympics?

[BEANZ]

Soccer...

World Cup soccer is way bigger than soccer in the Olympics.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by BEANZ

Soccer...

World Cup soccer is way bigger than soccer in the Olympics.

And FIFA is different from the IOC how?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What sport holds a world championship above an Olympics?

All of these have tournaments or titles that are equal or bigger in prestige than the olympics. Not all are world championships;

Tennis, golf, soccer, surfing, road cycling, boxing, rugby, I think climbing too?

The X-games are also probably bigger or at least equal to the olympics in "extreme" sports (BMX, Skateboarding, Snowboarding etc.)

Of course in most sports the olympics gets the biggest TV audiences, but for actual fans of a single sport there's plenty of other tournaments which are at least pretty close to an olympic medal.

For example in ski-jumping the Four Hills tournament is definitely up there with anything you can win in the sport.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by BEANZ

Soccer...

World Cup soccer is way bigger than soccer in the Olympics.

The Rugby World Cup is also enormous and I think it's bigger than the Olympics? It's definitely something the programs care about more.

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Itse

All of these have tournaments or titles that are equal or bigger in prestige than the olympics. Not all are world championships;

Tennis, golf, soccer, surfing, road cycling, boxing, rugby, I think climbing too?

The X-games are also probably bigger or at least equal to the olympics in "extreme" sports (BMX, Skateboarding, Snowboarding etc.)

Of course in most sports the olympics gets the biggest TV audiences, but for actual fans of a single sport there's plenty of other tournaments which are at least pretty close to an olympic medal.

For example in ski-jumping the Four Hills tournament is definitely up there with anything you can win in the sport.

I disagree on the winter sports side of this. Winning at the X-Games doesn't even come close to winning an Olympic Gold medal in any winter Skiing/Snowboarding event.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Ullr

I disagree on the winter sports side of this. Winning at the X-Games doesn't even come close to winning an Olympic Gold medal in any winter Skiing/Snowboarding event.

I'm basing this on the opinion of a couple of snowboarding friends who barely consider the olympics a real snowboarding event

EDIT:
The olympics have mass appeal and thus you get mass recognition from it. There's a reason why all sports want to be in the olympics. Actual prestige within a sport is more complicated though.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Itse

All of these have tournaments or titles that are equal or bigger in prestige than the olympics. Not all are world championships;

Tennis, golf, soccer, surfing, road cycling, boxing, rugby, I think climbing too?

The X-games are also probably bigger or at least equal to the olympics in "extreme" sports (BMX, Skateboarding, Snowboarding etc.)

Of course in most sports the olympics gets the biggest TV audiences, but for actual fans of a single sport there's plenty of other tournaments which are at least pretty close to an olympic medal.

For example in ski-jumping the Four Hills tournament is definitely up there with anything you can win in the sport.

Fair enough.

But for most of these obscure sports, there’s no greater victory than the Olympics - it’s the only time the entire world pays attention to them.

Hockey cares more about the Olympics than any other international tournament, even the ones they put on themselves - the energy for the 2004 and 2016 World Cups were pathetic.

The only people who care about the WHC play for the Oilers.

The spotlight and prestige of the Olympics is unmatched.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Fair enough.

But for most of these obscure sports, there’s no greater victory than the Olympics - it’s the only time the entire world pays attention to them.

Hockey cares more about the Olympics than any other international tournament, even the ones they put on themselves - the energy for the 2004 and 2016 World Cups were pathetic.

The only people who care about the WHC play for the Oilers.

The spotlight and prestige of the Olympics is unmatched.

not in hockey.

I think the vast majority of North American born hockey players would rather win the Stanley cup over an olympic medal. that's more prestige and recognition in the hockey world.

Sure they'd probably like to have both, but if they could only have one, it would be the cup.

look at CP for one example. Are players rated here by their international play or Olympic credentials? No, that's just icing on the cake for a players career.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

not in hockey.

I think the vast majority of North American born hockey players would rather win the Stanley cup over an olympic medal. that's more prestige and recognition in the hockey world.

Sure they'd probably like to have both, but if they could only have one, it would be the cup.

look at CP for one example. Are players rated here by their international play or Olympic credentials? No, that's just icing on the cake for a players career.

For international tournaments, of course it is.

Yeah, everyone would rather have a cup than a gold medal, but nobody would rather have any other international victory over an Olympic gold.

[GirlySports]

I've said this many times on here. I should try to find an old post where i put it in detail. The NHL got conned by Olympic fever. They had the perfect tournament with the Canada Cup which turned into the 1996 World Cup. Perfect tournament, held both in Europe and North American and the Americans won. Couldn't have scripted it better to push American hockey with new expansion teams. 2000 World Cup should have been held in the sun belt. Miami, Tampa, Dallas...

But they threw that all away for what? A trip to Japan? Games at 4am? Having your whole tournament run by the IOC where you don't get the money or can't choose the location? The NHL got excited about the 92 US Dream Team in basketball but that worked because basketball didn't have a great best on best tournament. But even no, the Olympic Basketball tournament is now an afterthought. The newly rebranded Basketball World Cup is becoming bigger.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I've said this many times on here. I should try to find an old post where i put it in detail. The NHL got conned by Olympic fever. They had the perfect tournament with the Canada Cup which turned into the 1996 World Cup. Perfect tournament, held both in Europe and North American and the Americans won. Couldn't have scripted it better to push American hockey with new expansion teams. 2000 World Cup should have been held in the sun belt. Miami, Tampa, Dallas...

But they threw that all away for what? A trip to Japan? Games at 4am? Having your whole tournament run by the IOC where you don't get the money or can't choose the location? The NHL got excited about the 92 US Dream Team in basketball but that worked because basketball didn't have a great best on best tournament. But even no, the Olympic Basketball tournament is now an afterthought. The newly rebranded Basketball World Cup is becoming bigger.

If/when they do another World Cup of Hockey, they’ve got to hold it somewhere other than Toronto.

The All-Star game is a big deal no matter if it’s held in Montreal or Atlanta - hold the next World Cup in Las Vegas.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

For international tournaments, of course it is.

Yeah, everyone would rather have a cup than a gold medal, but nobody would rather have any other international victory over an Olympic gold.

When I was in University (oh god that was long ago) we had international athletes come and talk about competing amongst other things.

This may have changed but at the time a number of them said that a higher value was placed on World Championships because the governing body set the standard to get to the World Championships, but Olympics the standard was et by was set by the home nation and were often lower than the standard of the World Championship. The field was tighter in the World Championships.


Admittedly Uni was in the late 90's so perhaps this has changed.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

We don’t do those things, but China doesn’t make up wars and bomb 100,000’s of civilians, wait a minute we do lock up innocent people and hold them for years without trials, they’re just from poor countries so we don’t care.
China does horrible things, but to claim the “western” world is some guiding light of morality is ridiculous.
Propaganda works both ways, our society gobbles it up just as much if not more than China and it’s allies

No one says the USA is the beacon they claim to be, but a world led by China is a stark contrast.

Right now the US exports ideals like the idea of democracy. Its power gives countries like Canada and Iceland coverage to be a free society without bully or repercussion.

An unchallenged China would export a surveillance state. It has and would bully anyone they could to act like them. Or they will make you pay until you do what you want. They will act with impunity.

People all comfy in their western democratic society don’t realize the alternative. Its stark.

Imagine you typing a message on CP the says CCP sucks and Chinese agents show up to your door to threaten you or even take you. The Canadian government helpless because China will lie about kidnapping you, and then when exposed just threaten economic war.

Its not that far off in a world with an overly strong China and weakened Western democratic society.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Fair enough.

But for most of these obscure sports, there’s no greater victory than the Olympics - it’s the only time the entire world pays attention to them.

Hockey cares more about the Olympics than any other international tournament, even the ones they put on themselves - the energy for the 2004 and 2016 World Cups were pathetic.

The only people who care about the WHC play for the Oilers.

The spotlight and prestige of the Olympics is unmatched.

I think the business of hockey (in North America) is happy to move on from the Olympics. Prior to 1998, the Olympics were not the gold standard for international hockey, only then, when we first started to send the pro's to the Olympics did the Olympic tournament have any sort of relevance. It was a key strategic move from a business side then to grow "the obscure sport of hockey" in markets outside of Canada, specifically the US. 1998 was warm up, for the US hosting the Olympics in Salt Lake City. The NHL wanted the worlds best, on a stage that an American audience would watch, to try and vault interest in hockey and the NHL state side. Then with the games coming back to North America in Vancouver 8 years later, the NHL benefit sort of lingered on.

But that time has passed for the business side, and the only reason it continues is the desire from the players, to have the opportunity to participate in the Olympics, which is also very understandable.

All of this said, from a fan perspective, and as someone who is old enough to remember when the NHL players weren't at the Olympics, I don't really care if the NHL participates in the Olympics. From a hockey perspective, the 87 and 96 Canada and then World Cup were actually great events. If done right, a World Cup of hockey can be just as meaningful, what doesn't work is when they are complimentary events while Olympic participation is still on the board. And from the Olympic perspective, those events are cool enough for me to enjoy, that I don't need my best on best international hockey fix to in coordination with the Olympics. In fact if done right, I'd probably prefer them separate, like you get with Soccer.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

No one says the USA is the beacon they claim to be, but a world led by China is a stark contrast.

Right now the US exports ideals like the idea of democracy. Its power gives countries like Canada and Iceland coverage to be a free society without bully or repercussion.

An unchallenged China would export a surveillance state. It has and would bully anyone they could to act like them. Or they will make you pay until you do what you want. They will act with impunity.

People all comfy in their western democratic society don’t realize the alternative. Its stark.

Imagine you typing a message on CP the says CCP sucks and Chinese agents show up to your door to threaten you or even take you. The Canadian government helpless because China will lie about kidnapping you, and then when exposed just threaten economic war.

Its not that far off in a world with an overly strong China and weakened Western democratic society.

To be clear my post wasn't saying the US was equal to or worse than China, simply responding to a poster that implied we are saints.
I don't think a world lead by China would be better than a US lead world, however I have to be honest I have zero concern with me as a Canadian, living in Canada, being locked up by the Chinese.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

And FIFA is different from the IOC how?

FIFA really professionalized corruption and embezzlement.

Compared to FIFA the IOC is still using Training Wheels.

FIFA did everything to a much higher degree and they didnt even have the BS of 'amateur sport' or ancient Greco-Roman games to hang their hats on. They just made up a tournament and a trophy and made it hard to get.

Although thats not entirely relevant to this discussion.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I've said this many times on here. I should try to find an old post where i put it in detail. The NHL got conned by Olympic fever. They had the perfect tournament with the Canada Cup which turned into the 1996 World Cup. Perfect tournament, held both in Europe and North American and the Americans won. Couldn't have scripted it better to push American hockey with new expansion teams. 2000 World Cup should have been held in the sun belt. Miami, Tampa, Dallas...

But they threw that all away for what? A trip to Japan? Games at 4am? Having your whole tournament run by the IOC where you don't get the money or can't choose the location? The NHL got excited about the 92 US Dream Team in basketball but that worked because basketball didn't have a great best on best tournament. But even no, the Olympic Basketball tournament is now an afterthought. The newly rebranded Basketball World Cup is becoming bigger.

Very well said.

And we paid more attention in 2010 than we might have otherwise because the games were in Vancouver (North America).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Locke

FIFA really professionalized corruption and embezzlement.

Compared to FIFA the IOC is still using Training Wheels.

FIFA did everything to a much higher degree and they didnt even have the BS of 'amateur sport' or ancient Greco-Roman games to hang their hats on. They just made up a tournament and a trophy and made it hard to get.

Although thats not entirely relevant to this discussion.

I dunno, seems like they both did a great job ####ing over Brazil.

One man’s China is another man’s Qatar.

They’re uniquely parasitic in that unlike most pro sports teams that bilk you for a stadium, they leave after a month.

At least the Big 4 Leagues stick around for decades.