Renewed passenger rail service between Banff and Calgary?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

The tourists are already here, except they arrive by plane and then rent SUVs without winter tires that clog the roads and always need room for parking.

In terms of growth I hate to break it to you but the government is aiming for a target of $20B in tourism revenue by 2030. That’s more people in Canmore, Banff, and Lake Louise but also places like Castle, Bighorn and Waterton. If we reach this growth without investing in the infrastructure to support it, we will love our mountain parks to death.

The tourist have a wide variety of shuttle, Bus, Van and vehicle rental already. The entirety of the project is based on the extent of train vs bus bias.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

The tourists are already here, except they arrive by plane and then rent SUVs without winter tires that clog the roads and always need room for parking.

In terms of growth I hate to break it to you but the government is aiming for a target of $20B in tourism revenue by 2030. That’s more people in Canmore, Banff, and Lake Louise but also places like Castle, Bighorn and Waterton. If we reach this growth without investing in the infrastructure to support it, we will love our mountain parks to death.

It would seem the solution to the first problem is to build a new international airport closer to Banff.

The solution to the second problem is to build the airport elsewhere and either create a new tourist destination or better capitalize on an existing but underutilized destination. e.g. Jasper or Glacier.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Nancy

It would seem the solution to the first problem is to build a new international airport closer to Banff.

The solution to the second problem is to build the airport elsewhere and either create a new tourist destination or better capitalize on an existing but underutilized destination. e.g. Jasper or Glacier.

Why not relocate Banff to Airport Trail and 19th NE?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Speaking of building gondolas....

The same money behind this Calgary to Banff Rail service, Liricon Capital, also owns Norquay and the Banff Rail Station. Liricon is Banff locals Jan and Adam Waterous and their three children

https://www.rmotoday.com/banff/banff...on-arp-4333845

This past summer; the ToB again refused to remove the Gondola Terminus from the Banff Train Station. The ultimate goal, is to ferry people up to Norquay from the townsite. Parks though....



Should be yes. The first efforts through the ToC, were rejected. The Developer has since taken it to the Provincial Courts.

https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/thr...t-plan-3878368

This has been done before;


https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/jud...e-plan-4186799

Interesting links. Counc. Poole sounds like a bit of a clown wanting to follow Parks Canada 'marching orders'.

While any development plans (and UCP connections) deserve scrutiny, they should stand or fall on their own merits. I haven't been in a few years, but Norquay is a great little hill and has evolved nicely over the last few years. More parking surrounding the townsite and developing a transit hub definitely makes sense, and I don't have any particular objection to the gondola idea. There used to be a gondola from the train station at Lake Louise up to the ski hill. I think Canmore could use one up to the Nordic Centre, too.

The common refrain that Parks Canada doesn't allow any new development in the parks is a bit silly IMO, considering LL has built 2 new lifts and SSV has upgraded one in the last few years.

[Northendzone]

^ I sort of wanted tp snicker at new parking, but I guess parks Canada did do something to create that lot about 5k from lake Louise.

I wonder how long LL had to work with parks Canada to get approval for those lifts.

I feel it would be hard to get approval for any new hotel or other tourist type stop or amenities

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ I sort of wanted tp snicker at new parking, but I guess parks Canada did do something to create that lot about 5k from lake Louise.

I wonder how long LL had to work with parks Canada to get approval for those lifts.

I feel it would be hard to get approval for any new hotel or other tourist type stop or amenities

That parking lot was the old lake Louise campground overflow. It’s been there for decades.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ I sort of wanted tp snicker at new parking, but I guess parks Canada did do something to create that lot about 5k from lake Louise.

I wonder how long LL had to work with parks Canada to get approval for those lifts.

I feel it would be hard to get approval for any new hotel or other tourist type stop or amenities

Lake Louise gave up some of their leasehold to wildlife habitat and worked extensively with Parks Canada to come up with a development plan that everybody was happy with. There are more lifts, lodges, and terrain coming at the lake.

Sunshine on the other hand just puts out crazy CalgaryNext style plans and then whines and complains to the media when Parks says no.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Interesting links. Counc. Poole sounds like a bit of a clown wanting to follow Parks Canada 'marching orders'.

While any development plans (and UCP connections) deserve scrutiny, they should stand or fall on their own merits. I haven't been in a few years, but Norquay is a great little hill and has evolved nicely over the last few years. More parking surrounding the townsite and developing a transit hub definitely makes sense, and I don't have any particular objection to the gondola idea.

Yeah, I enjoy Norquay on mellower, quick drive days.

There used to be a gondola from the train station at Lake Louise up to the ski hill.

Crazy, I had no idea. When was this? Any safeguards for when it crossed the #1, that you recall?

I think Canmore could use one up to the Nordic Centre, too.

That’d be neat. Perhaps less Pie in the Sky, than Mr Turcotte’s Gondola up Lady Mac, or his Casino, on the sunny side of town.

The common refrain that Parks Canada doesn't allow any new development in the parks is a bit silly IMO, considering LL has built 2 new lifts and SSV has upgraded one in the last few years.

Concessions were made.

[Fuzz]

I don't think it ever went to the train station. It started here, up to Whitehorn lodge:

https://goo.gl/maps/xB5B6K5sjm3wWqPm6

Some pics here:
http://www.chairlift.org/louise.html

I remember taking it, it was small.

[powderjunkie]

Ya, maybe not right at the train station, but I knew it was somewhere at the bottom of the valley. It does like like the cut line runs behind the Shell station, but maybe not for the gondola. Pretty sure gondola preceded TC1 as we know it by a fair margin

This is a good read about the bad ole' days...I'm not sure I'd have had the dedication to make it happen...I can barely get myself up for the drive now!

https://lakelouiselowdown.wordpress....n-lake-louise/

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ I sort of wanted tp snicker at new parking, but I guess parks Canada did do something to create that lot about 5k from lake Louise.

I wonder how long LL had to work with parks Canada to get approval for those lifts.

I feel it would be hard to get approval for any new hotel or other tourist type stop or amenities

Opened in 2014, despite some pretty staunch opposition:


PC has been onboard with (if not driving) the idea of a bike path from Jasper to Columbia Icefield...an idea I wouldn't mind that much if it went all the way to Lake Louise (though it would be much better bang for your buck to make some improvements on the 1A between Banff & LL - and also generally from Bowness to Cochrane/Canmore)

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Yeah, I enjoy Norquay on mellower, quick drive days.



Crazy, I had no idea. When was this? Any safeguards for when it crossed the #1, that you recall?


That’d be neat. Perhaps less Pie in the Sky, than Mr Turcotte’s Gondola up Lady Mac, or his Casino, on the sunny side of town.


Concessions were made.

I was especially thinking about the Nordic Centre gondola in relation to an Olympic bid.

I just couldn't be bothered to go into the concessions, but it was a sensible deal for all involved. Trading away the wider expanse of Purple Bowl area that is barely used in exchange for West Bowl area that was already heavily travelled made a lot of sense. I'm still a little surprised how much and how quickly LL has been able to build those lifts.

Maybe not involving lease areas, but I imagine there are similar compromises to be made at Norquay (if simply reducing traffic isn't enough).

IMO the biggest problem in the park is SSV parking. I know they've recently clamped down on road parking (not sure of current situation?)...they should be charging to park at the base and use that revenue to facilitate the parking/shuttle from the townsite (solving summer problems in the process).

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

IMO the biggest problem in the park is SSV parking. I know they've recently clamped down on road parking (not sure of current situation?)...they should be charging to park at the base and use that revenue to facilitate the parking/shuttle from the townsite (solving summer problems in the process).

SSV added a few hundred parking spots over the summer. So far they've accommodated everyone, but we'll know the full story over the Christmas break.

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Should be yes. The first efforts through the ToC, were rejected. The Developer has since taken it to the Provincial Courts.

https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/thr...t-plan-3878368

This has been done before;


https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/jud...e-plan-4186799

Gonna roll with this tangent. Today, Three Sisters Mountain Village Property Limited, sued the TofC, for $161m.

Similar dance partners. Similar dance. It's gonna be the same outcome.

https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/tsm...Gy0YEKoPweh9zg

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Gonna roll with this tangent. Today, Three Sisters Mountain Village Property Limited, sued the TofC, for $161m.

Similar dance partners. Similar dance. It's gonna be the same outcome.

https://www.rmotoday.com/canmore/tsm...Gy0YEKoPweh9zg

What's your opinion on this? I know its been a long saga but I've never been in the weeds on it. Seems pretty clear that multiple councils have reached the same conclusions over and over.

The lawsuit states after the lands were annexed by the Town of Canmore in 1991, the 1992 NRCB decision approved a recreational and tourism program.
...

“At every step over the past 30 years, TSMV has adhered to the conditions set out by the NRCB," Taylor said in the statement. "Canmore’s town council, on the other hand, has not, repeatedly and frequently pushing back against the board’s decision and now preventing fair access to all Albertans to one of the most beautiful areas of this province, not to mention a priority area identified by the provincial government as a critical tourism area featured prominently in its economic recovery plans.”

...

The development of the lands has been highly contentious and largely opposed by Canmore residents.

A lengthy six-day public hearing in March had nearly 2,200 written and oral submissions, with more than 90 per cent being opposed to the ASPs.

I'm not sure how further development there would help the community as awhole (beyond a few affordable housings).

I'm very curious about that 1992 NRCB decision and what recreational/tourism program implies. Do big ass residential developments fall anywhere near the NRCBs jurisdiction?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

What's your opinion on this? I know its been a long saga but I've never been in the weeds on it. Seems pretty clear that multiple councils have reached the same conclusions over and over.



I'm not sure how further development there would help the community as awhole (beyond a few affordable housings).

I'm very curious about that 1992 NRCB decision and what recreational/tourism program implies. Do big ass residential developments fall anywhere near the NRCBs jurisdiction?

Well, it's a polarizing topic in town. The NIMBY/Conservationists are the loudest, and of course oppose. Conversely, affordable housing is a hot topic, especially with a new council - and ultimately, housing is required in town.

With feedback from council and the town, the developer, twice over amended their application. Despite that, Council voted it down 6-1, departing Mayor Borrowman the lone vote.

I'm quietly in favour of the development, but want Council and TSMV, to work together constructively... Apprehensive how that looks today.

Can't speak to the NRCB, very elementary understanding.

[powderjunkie]

Affordable housing is such a tough nut to crack for all mountain towns. Playing sim-city (without having to worry about pesky things like land ownership) is immediately east of TC1... the existing resorts look particularly ugly given how sparse they are...filling the space would actually be more aesthetically pleasing. Berm parrellel the highway and add pedestrian overpass(es), and maybe even reconfigure/delete that WB highway exit...it might be better with a more direct WB entrance-ramp.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Affordable housing is such a tough nut to crack for all mountain towns. Playing sim-city (without having to worry about pesky things like land ownership) is immediately east of TC1... the existing resorts look particularly ugly given how sparse they are...filling the space would actually be more aesthetically pleasing. Berm parrellel the highway and add pedestrian overpass(es), and maybe even reconfigure/delete that WB highway exit...it might be better with a more direct WB entrance-ramp.

The WB off of Palliser? I agree, it's not ideal, but can't see them changing it. The town is about traffic calming, of late. And some of that vacant land you speak of that's east of town, on the south side of the TC1, is actually owned -- with the intent for development.

What's really needed are animal crossings, especially for the Elk. Fortunately not often, but Elk, in the evening will congregate in the median of the TC1.

There is one on the horizon, but one for Canmore proper, and another for 3 Sisters would be a start.

rmotoday.com/canmore/wildlife-overpass-east-of-canmore-to-be-built-2021-22-2892478


Ya know, I/we have completely hi-jacked this thread. Apologies OP.

[powderjunkie]

It's pretty much just a Bow Valley thread at this point. I figured that land was slated for eventual development...unfortunately from a civic planning perspective you don't always get what you want where you want when you want . I'm just saying for a town that generally wants to restrict/slow development, there is some lower hanging fruit that would benefit the community before developing the 'burbs'.

[Wormius]

A train would definitely solve some of the housing problems with staff in the parks. Live in Calgary and do a commute. It seems pretty bad when you have people car camping because they can’t find or afford a place.

[Northendzone]

it would be interesting to see what the uptake on train commuting would be for local canmore/banff workers.

maybe if local employers offered up free/or heavily discounted train passes. those workers without vehicles would also presumably need a calgary transit pass as well

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

it would be interesting to see what the uptake on train commuting would be for local canmore/banff workers.

maybe if local employers offered up free/or heavily discounted train passes. those workers without vehicles would also presumably need a calgary transit pass as well

The OnIt bus fare to Banff includes a day pass for local Roam routes in the town (Canmore and Lake Louise are excluded). Plenty of opportunities for partnerships between different municipalities, companies, providers, etc. and simple little things like that can be a win-win. Easier for travellers, fewer cars, increases ridership.

[Sliver]

Not sure if you guys have ever worked in the mountains, but the people do it to experience living in the mountains. That's what they get out of it. The actual jobs suck, but the perk is the mountain access and the only reason people work there. No, nobody is going to serve tables at Earl's in Banff, but live in Altadore in Calgary. That's preposterous. They'd just wait tables at the Earl's down the street and save themselves a brutal commute each way.

The. Train. Will. Never. Happen. It's just talk.