New Zealand to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes — for life

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

Waiting to see the 'ban it' crowd say the same for alcohol.

Come on guys, surely you don't think its less bad.

Well the issue there is a much larger user base for alcohol consumption, and the vast majority of that base are responsible drinkers. Even a "responsible" smoker is still going to irritate others when they have to walk past them to get into a building, or work next to them after them come in from a smoke break. On a personal level I'd love to see smoking banned just to stop seeing cigarette butts littered all over downtown, so many smokers are selfish pricks

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

On a personal level I'd love to see smoking banned just to stop seeing cigarette butts littered all over downtown, so many smokers are selfish pricks

We ban opioids (and impose severe criminal sanctions on their distribution), and yet needles, vials, feces, and people are littered all over the streets. Why on earth would you think people will stop smoking - and tossing butts on the ground - if cigarettes were banned?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by kevman

Can someone explain to me how we're looking at decriminalizing drugs all over the world as a effort to help users and prevent crime and yet we're celebrating criminalizing a drug?

We know prohibition didn't work but this time will be different?

Because progressivism is just another political orientation rather than the political outlet of only 'science-based' policies it's proponents always tout. If this was applied in Canada we would have a proliferation of craft cannabis stores, but cigar shops would be in planned obsolesce.

Progressives:
Pot = Cool
Tobacco = White trash and should be eliminated

Ideally both would be legal and commercial but regulated as they are both recreational substances that have negative health effects. Personally I don't know why Aurora can send me a twitter ad showing it's new beautiful Whistler mountain grown Indica product now with 26-27%THC, but Cohiba can't advertise their cigars, but I guess this is where we are.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Azure

Waiting to see the 'ban it' crowd say the same for alcohol.

Come on guys, surely you don't think its less bad.

How are they even close to the same? Cigarettes have no purpose at all, except to deliver nicotine. Nicotine is not being banned. You can’t seriously be so obtuse as to compare a glass of wine with dinner to lighting something on fire and inhaling carcinogens. Jesus Christ some of you people are thick.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roger

How are they even close to the same? Cigarettes have no purpose at all, except to deliver nicotine. Nicotine is not being banned. You can’t seriously be so obtuse as to compare a glass of wine with dinner to lighting something on fire and inhaling carcinogens. Jesus Christ some of you people are thick.

People who smoke get a pleasurable effect from it. In the short-term, it makes them feel calm and focused.

[Matata]

No one ever smoked a cigarette then beat their wife, or traumatized their family, or got in a car accident, or started a fight as a direct result of it.

If you want to evaluate substances based on harm done to others, Alcohol is in the lead by miles and miles.

e: I've been to music festivals where alcohol was the only banned substance, because of the profoundly toxic way it reacts to other substances and how it was by far the most harmful and destructive substance.


In this chart, Alcohol is comparable to Opiods & GHB (spoilered for size)

Spoiler!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Probably a good idea. You'd have to take a similar approach to tobacco.

No advertising, no sponsorship, then reduce where you can drink, etc.

It couldn't be a flip a switch thing.

Actually an interesting point, to ban advertising for these 'harmful to society' things.

I suggest we ban the Budweiser commercials first.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i feel that this ban is different, as kids who are 14 and under will never be able to smoke legally; however, they will eventually be able to drink.

i would be interesting to see a reasonable health cost summary based on vice. I feel that costs related to alcohol would be way more than smoking.

The Addictions Foundation of Manitoba (AFM) says alcohol has moved into the unenviable position as Canada’s worst substance.

A report released in 2018 by the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction and the Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research estimated alcohol cost Canadians almost $15 billion per year in terms of lost productivity, justice costs, and more.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5060998/a...itoba-experts/

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Matata

No one ever smoked a cigarette then beat their wife, or traumatized their family, or got in a car accident, or started a fight as a direct result of it.

If you want to evaluate substances based on harm done to others, Alcohol is in the lead by miles and miles.

I have no desire to play the what is worse olympics, but 2nd hand smoke kills thousands of people every year.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Roger

How are they even close to the same? Cigarettes have no purpose at all, except to deliver nicotine. Nicotine is not being banned. You can’t seriously be so obtuse as to compare a glass of wine with dinner to lighting something on fire and inhaling carcinogens. Jesus Christ some of you people are thick.

There is literally no evidence that says prohibition works.

But what we are really comparing is the significant damage that alcohol has imposed on our society. Far worse than smoking.

And yet you just ignore it. So who is thick?

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Matata

No one ever smoked a cigarette then beat their wife, or traumatized their family, or got in a car accident, or started a fight as a direct result of it.

If you want to evaluate substances based on harm done to others, Alcohol is in the lead by miles and miles.

How is that relevant in a cigarette thread? This has nothing to do with alcohol. Nobody is trying to solve all the world’s problems in one fell swoop here. Cigarettes have a much less deadly alternative, and now one government is strategically eliminating their availability without trouncing on the rights of their citizens, and you are arguing that alcohol causes wife beatings. Thanks for the update. Guns kill people, so maybe we better solve guns before making any other progress anywhere else in all walks of life? SMH

[Azure]

Originally Posted by zamler

I have no desire to play the what is worse olympics, but 2nd hand smoke kills thousands of people every year.

More than 3 million people died as a result of harmful use of alcohol in 2016, according a report released by the World Health Organization (WHO) today. This represents 1 in 20 deaths. More than three quarters of these deaths were among men. Overall, the harmful use of alcohol causes more than 5% of the global disease burden.

https://www.who.int/news/item/21-09-...st-of-them-men

To break it down further.

Drinking and driving kills more than 10,000 people each year, though that number has decreased in recent years. Alcohol-related traffic fatalities make up just under 30% of all traffic fatalities each year, a trend which is also slowly starting to decrease over time:

https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/drunk-driving/

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.who.int/news/item/21-09-...st-of-them-men

To break it down further.



https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/drunk-driving/

Maybe I didn't make myself clear? I'm not going to play the "this is worse game". Smoking is terrible and incredibly stupid, excessive drinking puts a massive drain on society. It's all bad.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Roger

How is that relevant in a cigarette thread? This has nothing to do with alcohol. Nobody is trying to solve all the world’s problems in one fell swoop here. Cigarettes have a much less deadly alternative, and now one government is strategically eliminating their availability without trouncing on the rights of their citizens, and you are arguing that alcohol causes wife beatings. Thanks for the update. Guns kill people, so maybe we better solve guns before making any other progress anywhere else in all walks of life? SMH

My argument is there are no logical grounds to ban anything and that the rules being drawn up to uphold certain substances over others is idiotic and arbitrary.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Matata

In this chart, Alcohol is comparable to Opiods & GHB (spoilered for size)

Spoiler!

Does this mean LSD is the safest drug?

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is literally no evidence that says prohibition works.

But what we are really comparing is the significant damage that alcohol has imposed on our society. Far worse than smoking.

And yet you just ignore it. So who is thick?

Holy moly. Are you also anti vax? The right to get covid? WTF are you even talking about alcohol for? This is about cigarettes. Actual cigarettes. Not your right to consume nicotine, or formaldehyde, or any of the other things in cigarettes. It’s about getting rid of the convenient and extremely addictive method of delivering these chemicals.

You are actually arguing that because there are other vices available, nothing on Earth should ever be phased out. This is like talking to a two year old that wants cookies for dinner.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by zamler

Maybe I didn't make myself clear? I'm not going to play the "this is worse game". Smoking is terrible and incredibly stupid, excessive drinking puts a massive drain on society. It's all bad.

So don’t. No one’s forcing you to. You can refuse to acknowledge which is worse but other people will continue to point it out.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Matata

My argument is there are no logical grounds to ban anything and that the rules being drawn up to uphold certain substances over others is idiotic and arbitrary.

Why even paint lines on the road? My right to drive into oncoming traffic is at risk here!!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Roger

Holy moly. Are you also anti vax? The right to get covid? WTF are you even talking about alcohol for? This is about cigarettes. Actual cigarettes. Not your right to consume nicotine, or formaldehyde, or any of the other things in cigarettes. It’s about getting rid of the convenient and extremely addictive method of delivering these chemicals.

You are actually arguing that because there are other vices available, nothing on Earth should ever be phased out. This is like talking to a two year old that wants cookies for dinner.

lol, didn't take long for the moronic anti-vaxx argument to come up. Give your head a shake.

What this is really about is whether or not prohibition (banning something) works.

It doesn't. End of story. We literally have 100 years of data to prove that.
But lets go another round with stupid policies that just serve to make a government look like they're doing something. In New Zealand's case, it is right on par with a lot of other policies to 'serve the greater good.'

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So don’t. No one’s forcing you to. You can refuse to acknowledge which is worse but other people will continue to point it out.

How about you address this is a slightly intelligent way instead of your usual low brained snark. It serves no purpose to intensely focus on what is worse, especially since these various drugs are all being discussed in the context of the best way to deal with them.