[News] Canucks hire Jim Rutherford as President and interim GM - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GioforPM · 12-09-2021, 02:19 PM

Rutherford obviously made good moves and had success a few years ago. His most recent decisions are a little suspect though.

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguin...aking-effects/

GranteedEV · 12-09-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Rutherford obviously made good moves and had success a few years ago. His most recent decisions are a little suspect though.

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguin...aking-effects/

Yes, as soon as he stopped prioritizing speed+skill and started trying to make the Penguins tougher, it was downhill. Weird that after two cups with a "soft" team suddenly he thought they needed to get tougher.

DionTheDman · 12-09-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devo22

yeah that was my first thought too. Very much an old boys club and it's incredible that the same old guys get hired over and over again.

Not quite the same, but we have seen firsthand what results are when we try out the latest up-and-coming coaches. Playfair, Gully, Ward...

Locke · 12-09-2021, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

Won 2 cups (in Pitt), spent like a madman to keep that window pried open. Did what ownership wanted I suppose, just didn't have success past that 2nd cup.

Okay, and you're absolutely right and this was largely one of my opinions about Treliving as well, and we'll get to that.

Rutherford did spend like a madman. However, that was his purview.

His job was to take a good team and put them over the top. It can be argued that he did that job and did it well.

The fact that the team was a mess afterwards...well, that is to be expected. If you want to talk about the nature of parity in the NHL then its pretty well recognized that most solid Championship teams eventually slide down the back-side of the Bell Curve.

The trick is to win those Championships while that window is open and then suffer the consequences alleviating your misery by polishing your rings.

Where I drag Treliving into this is something I've said many times before, I think he built a solid team, but sometimes you get people who can only take you so far and then you've got to bring people in to drag you over the hump to the top.

That pretty well describes Rutherford's job in Pittsburgh.

Now, does he have the skills and tools to do an entirely different job in Vancouver? I'd wager 'No' but I guess we'll have to find out.

GioforPM · 12-09-2021, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Not quite the same, but we have seen firsthand what results are when we try out the latest up-and-coming coaches. Playfair, Gully, Ward...

Cooper, Sullivan, Cassidy, Bednar

GranteedEV · 12-09-2021, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Cooper, Sullivan, Cassidy, Bednar

I'm all for inexperienced head coaches being given a chance. And I would add Shelder Keefe to that list, despite his lack of postseason success I have no doubt he has the Leafs playing to their potential. And I suspect Playfair might have improved given more of a... chance (kind of tough to follow up Darryl Sutter in a division winning year...)

What I find crazy though is that Ward nor Gulutzan were ever top coaching prospects. The guys you named, at least had some success at lower levels (or in lone che case of Cassidy, was an internal midseason hire who produced immediate quantifiable results).

Gulutzan flopped in the AHL, flopped in the NHL, and his claim to fame upon hiring was, I guess, being associated with Sullivan in their lone Canucks year.

Ward was and is a good assistant, but had no success as a head coach and his interim stint (which was justifiable) saw the Flames' underlying metrics plummet from elite a year prior to bubble team with largely the same roster. So for him to be re-signed was insane.

Even Travis Green had a better AHL resume than Glen Gulutzan and Geoff Ward.

GioforPM · 12-09-2021, 04:13 PM

I had pretty high expectations for Greene, but he turned out to be limited by his team, much like Eakins.

Jay Random · 12-09-2021, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ward was and is a good assistant, but had no success as a head coach and his interim stint (which was justifiable) saw the Flames' underlying metrics plummet from elite a year prior to bubble team with largely the same roster. So for him to be re-signed was insane.

I am still convinced that they only re-signed Ward as a placeholder because Sutter, for family reasons, was not yet ready to come out of retirement.

Hot_Flatus · 12-09-2021, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sigh. NHL is such a recycle bin league. A 72 year old Jim Rutherford is not what any team needs today.

Is it any different with Sutter coaching the Flames again or Brian Burke constantly getting token positions every 2-3 seasons? It's not like the NFL, NBA or MLB are much different either.

activeStick · 12-09-2021, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Is it any different with Sutter coaching the Flames again or Brian Burke constantly getting token positions every 2-3 seasons? It's not like the NFL, NBA or MLB are much different either.

Or other professional industries, to be honest. It's why networking and experience matters.

GranteedEV · 12-09-2021, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I am still convinced that they only re-signed Ward as a placeholder because Sutter, for family reasons, was not yet ready to come out of retirement.

Still a weird horse to pin your hopes on. Would Ward still be Flames coach if Sutter doesn't come out of retirement?

Jay Random · 12-09-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Still a weird horse to pin your hopes on. Would Ward still be Flames coach if Sutter doesn't come out of retirement?

Nothing weird about it if they knew he was coming out of retirement but wasn't ready to do so in time for the start of the season.

Boreal · 12-09-2021, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't understand why NHL teams keep recycling the same people and expecting different results.

JR has been one of the very worst managers in the league for the last 10+ years and should never be given another opportunity.

Canucks fans should be livid.

Because hockey culture breeds management that is a crony feedback loop of human centipedes?

dino7c · 12-09-2021, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

Won 2 cups (in Pitt), spent like a madman to keep that window pried open. Did what ownership wanted I suppose, just didn't have success past that 2nd cup.

90% due to the team sucking and past lottery wins

GranteedEV · 12-09-2021, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

90% due to the team sucking and past lottery wins

High draft pics are where you get number one centres. The Canucks drafted 5th overall but Pettersson would go higher in a redraft so they might have gotten lucky there already.

The question for Rutherford is if he can build a roster around their #1C Pettersson, #1D Hughes, and #1G Demko (and whether those guys can be good enough in those roles of course). If's not like he's taking over the Coyotes on the other hand. He has pieces to work with, but has to manage the cap and fill out the roster. Easier said than done, but he's done it before. Three times. The 06 Canes arguably had a worse core too.

DoubleK · 12-09-2021, 06:46 PM

I think Boudreau and Rutherford will give the owners an honest assessment of where the organization is at.

Good hires IMO for the place they are in right now.

Jay Random · 12-09-2021, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

90% due to the team sucking and past lottery wins

Don't talk as if getting a top-3 pick was some weird fluke. Every team in the NHL, except the Flames and the Golden Knights, has done it at least once.

But I guess you're right. Jim Rutherford is a hopeless GM who only won a cup WITH THE CAROLINA HURRICANES because the Penguins won a draft lottery, something something reasons.

powderjunkie · 12-09-2021, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

High draft pics are where you get number one centres. The Canucks drafted 5th overall but Pettersson would go higher in a redraft so they might have gotten lucky there already.

The question for Rutherford is if he can build a roster around their #1C Pettersson, #1D Hughes, and #1G Demko (and whether those guys can be good enough in those roles of course). If's not like he's taking over the Coyotes on the other hand. He has pieces to work with, but has to manage the cap and fill out the roster. Easier said than done, but he's done it before. Three times. The 06 Canes arguably had a worse core too.

At this moment it is interesting to consider a 2017 redraft.

1. Makar
2. Heiskanen

Could argue lots of different orders for:
Pettersson
Hischier
Necas
Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Oettinger
Batherson

At this moment, given EP's injuries and current mediocrity, I'd probably take Necas/Oettinger 3/4.

Pettersson likely has the highest ceiling of all the forwards, but even then I'm not sure he's a Kopitar/Getzlaf/Toews calibre player. Depending on the theoretical existing roster, I might prefer the more reliable and 'complete' C's like Hischier and Thomas (even if they are more likely to top out as very good 2Cs), or Suzuki who is still trending upward despite his own garbage team this year. They all have warts...I wouldn't really want any of them to be one of my top two forwards, but of course they're all still young.