New Zealand to make it illegal for kids to buy cigarettes — for life

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Even with cigarettes being legal, there is still a black market for cheap untaxed cigarettes.

I think a law like this would be difficult to implement in Canada. We have a pretty porous border with the U.S. and it would absolutely never fly there. Tobacco is still a fundamental part of their economy, not to mention the backlash it would have on the right wing libertarian crowd. It would be seen as an attack on the south.

Tobacco use is also considered part of the culture for some Indigenous Peoples in Canada, so there would be an easy conduit for cigarettes to make their way into Canada that way.

New Zealand benefits a lot from being islands with no land borders.

I have an indigenous friend that's made had a side business selling cigarettes since we were teenagers. Still does it now. It's not extremely lucrative but its money on the side.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Envitro

People that think that banning things makes those things go away are living in a fantasy land.

This is a different thing, though. This is akin to banning motorcyclists from riding without helmets. Sure, there are still people that do it, but 99% of the population adheres. This is not like banning hard drugs. Banning drugs doesn't work because they get you high, and addicts integrate it into their lifestyle. You can't force someone to stop the urge to get high, or to be friends with other users.

Cigarettes do only one thing: kill you. And since they're legal now, you can't just take that away. Banning this product from being sold to potential new smokers is the only fair way to phase it out. But again, if people are dead set on becoming addicted to nicotine, there's always vaping.

I understand the cynicism, but instead of just disregarding this as a bad idea because apples, realize that this is oranges.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize the black market for cigarettes is thriving because of higher taxes?

Yes, I can still find it funny.

Of all the fun and interesting substances you could get on the black market, and people who have never smoked before are going to choose… cigarettes.

Bunch of nerds.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Envitro

People that think that banning things makes those things go away are living in a fantasy land.

So what happens if we ban Fantasy Island?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

So what happens if we ban Fantasy Island?

There will be one less cheesy TV series reboot opportunity?

[Macman]

It's surprising to me how many people still smoke, I think statistically smoking is down but I'm not so sure as I still see a lot of people smoking and buying cigarettes. The cost alone should make one want to quit, no?

What gets me sometimes is when I see a new or even luxury vehicle and someone inside it smoking, it's like, what are you doing?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Macman

It's surprising to me how many people still smoke, I think statistically smoking is down but I'm not so sure as I still see a lot of people smoking and buying cigarettes. The cost alone should make one want to quit, no?

What gets me sometimes is when I see a new or even luxury vehicle and someone inside it smoking, it's like, what are you doing?

It's a drop in the bucket compared to even 20 years ago. Not even remotely close. It really wasn't that long ago people smoked in public establishments.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a drop in the bucket compared to even 20 years ago. Not even remotely close. It really wasn't that long ago people smoked in public establishments.

Agreed. Neither of my kids smoke (19 and 17) nor anyone in either of their groups of friends. None of my nieces or nephews in that age group smoke either.

[peter12]

I hate this policy. Adults should be allowed to do what they want.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Proactive governments are looking at the future decades of exponential health care costs and the smart ones will nip dumb crap like smoking in the bud. Kudos NZ.

Smoking is good for the pocket book.

Early death means low CPP and OAS and GIS payments and we collect tax revenues up front but incur the costs in the future so the NPV of that cash flow is really good.

That aside I don’t think it works.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Agreed. Neither of my kids smoke (19 and 17) nor anyone in either of their groups of friends. None of my nieces or nephews in that age group smoke either.

Agreed as my two teenage sons have probably never even held a cigarette. In the late 80's early 90's I would say 50% or more teens when I was in school smoked in some capacity even if it was only on weekends when partying. In an office of over 60 people I work today I think there's less than 5 that smoke which is remarkable when you consider how normal it used to be not that long ago. I remember people lots of people smoking in their cubicles and office lunch rooms only 25 years ago.

[Wastedyouth]

Making it illegal is really the incorrect route. In my opinion. Continue to spend that money on education of the dangers. It's really the only way to do it.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...ttes-1.5995075

Banning them will create an even bigger black market.

We already know how to reduce smoking rates. With time and more dedicated resources, there is no reason we can't further decrease the cost on society.

Not to say this is good or bad, but there's a giant difference in getting black market cigarettes in Canada with the world's large economy a stone's throw away and New Zealand which you basically can't get to without flying or a long boat trip.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Roger

This is a different thing, though. This is akin to banning motorcyclists from riding without helmets. Sure, there are still people that do it, but 99% of the population adheres. This is not like banning hard drugs. Banning drugs doesn't work because they get you high, and addicts integrate it into their lifestyle. You can't force someone to stop the urge to get high, or to be friends with other users.

Cigarettes do only one thing: kill you. And since they're legal now, you can't just take that away. Banning this product from being sold to potential new smokers is the only fair way to phase it out. But again, if people are dead set on becoming addicted to nicotine, there's always vaping.

I understand the cynicism, but instead of just disregarding this as a bad idea because apples, realize that this is oranges.

Lol. You know nicotine is a drug right?

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by peter12

I hate this policy. Adults should be allowed to do what they want.

This isn't about telling people what to do - it's about saving money on ballooning health costs. You want to smoke - knock yourself out but should the taxbase pay for your lung cancer treatments 30-40 years down the road?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by peter12

I hate this policy. Adults should be allowed to do what they want.

Good idea! Lets allow adults to smoke so we can all pay for their related health care costs down the road.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Lol. You know nicotine is a drug right?

Thanks for the update? That’s the point. Nobody is making nicotine illegal.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

This isn't about telling people what to do - it's about saving money on ballooning health costs. ...

This is a losing argument . Heavy smokers die of heart attacks at 75. Non-smokers live to 90 suffering through general old-age incapacitation issues like cancer, dementia and lack of mobility for the last 10 years of their lives. Health care and pension costs to maintain their living is incomparably higher.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Making it illegal is really the incorrect route. In my opinion. Continue to spend that money on education of the dangers. It's really the only way to do it.

I totally disagree with this one. Especially since you can accomplish the same thing without really spending a penny.

Education will only get you so far, the only way to stop smoking is to make sure it's not available. In the interim while cigarettes are still available to some people will kids still take up smoking? Sure.
But the availability and that number is going to go down over time.

Sure next year you'll have 18 year olds buying smokes for their 17 year old friends, but eventually those 17 year olds are going to need 40 year olds to buy them smokes, so that access is going to go away pretty steadily.

In the meantime sure, keep up with the education, to reduce the numbers further and watch the problem go away even quicker, and eventually you won't have to spend any money educating people because a) they won't be available, and b) by that point everyone will be saying "can you actually believe you used to be able to sell things that the only function was to give you cancer?"

And yes, I realize that the same arguments could be made for alcohol, and maybe one day we will go that route as public opinion shifts. But not doing away with every societal ill, is no reason not to chip away at the ones most people agree we would be better without.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

This is a losing argument . Heavy smokers die of heart attacks at 75. Non-smokers live to 90 suffering through general old-age incapacitation issues like cancer, dementia and lack of mobility for the last 10 years of their lives. Health care and pension costs to maintain their living is incomparably higher.

Yeah, it’s a sick thing to say but if this is really about the financial cost of people, the sooner people in retirement die the better.