[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think Monahan's been passable, but he gets a lot of credit for virtually the same things Adam Ruzicka did tonight at about the same level, and I don't think Ruzicka's been anything to write home about. If you swapped the centres, would the results (in terms of chances) have changed a whole lot?

The bar for Monahan is really low. Replacing him with a bonafide playdriving centre like Yanni Gourde would improve the play of Monahan's linemates.

I think the most praise you can sincerely give Monahan after three consecutive solid games is that "plays no longer die on his stick".

If you think Ruzicka and Monahan played at the same level tonight, there’s really no discussion to be had.

And yes, the bar for Monahan is low right now. But he’s certainly better than a replacement player. And tonight he was a top 3-4 forward IMO. Actually a top 3-4 Flame since the D were bad and Vladar was not great.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m not rejecting popular opinion, based on the comments in this thread. Most people seem to recognize an increase in work rate and overall play, not reflected in points, for whatever reason. Hence, my belief that you don’t know a contrarian post when you see one. . I simply dislike disingenuous posts that don’t have basis in reality. Your posts are all hyperbole. And you literally said the only thing Monahan was doing well was tying his skates. And I quote:

"he's doing the little things" and "he's getting better and better" etc. Like what little things, doing up his laces?!

Not to mention no one is generalizing like that - they are all pointing to specific things that are looking better.

The lace comment was tongue-in-cheek, I obviously don't mean that is the only thing he's good at. It was making a point about the vague comments in his defense, which; I disagree with you, are often made. (speaking of disingenuousness and reality)

If you think all my posts are hyperbole we should probably agree to disagree and move on.

[GioforPM]

It seems passing odd to accuse people of unreasonable posts and at the same time deny anything positive in that fashion but you be you.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If you think Ruzicka and Monahan played at the same level tonight, there’s really no discussion to be had.

Let me put it like this.

Ruzicka and Monahan had similarly effective nights, but Ruzicka's night has the asterisk of "kid gloves treatment", both good and bad. I'm not hand-waiving that asterisk. But I am genuinely curious if the results in terms of scoring chance volume would have been any different if they swapped lines.

And yes, the bar for Monahan is low right now. But he’s certainly better than a replacement player. And tonight he was a top 3-4 forward IMO. Actually a top 3-4 Flame since the D were bad and Vladar was not great.

Ruzicka wasn't replacement level tonight. And I'm not just talking about goal events. Although faceoffs were not a strong suit on the night.

But yes, Ruzicka is not exactly Sean Couturier, Jordan Staal or Patrice Bergeron in terms of complete game. Neither is Monahan.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It seems passing odd to accuse people of unreasonable posts and at the same time deny anything positive in that fashion but you be you.

It seems passing odd to jump on me replying to a post about the extremes of opinion on a player and my point being they occur on both sides. I guess ultimately proving to me you are part of one of the extremes. But you be you.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Let me put it like this.

Ruzicka and Monahan had similarly effective nights, but Ruzicka's night has the asterisk of "kid gloves treatment", both good and bad. I'm not hand-waiving that asterisk. But I am genuinely curious if the results in terms of scoring chance volume would have been any different if they swapped lines.



Ruzicka wasn't replacement level tonight. And I'm not just talking about goal events. Although faceoffs were not a strong suit on the night.

But yes, Ruzicka is not exactly Sean Couturier, Jordan Staal or Patrice Bergeron in terms of complete game. Neither is Monahan.

Well, having watched the game (and I recall you didn’t really) I can say Monahan was a lot better than Ruzicka (and Backlund) and pretty much on par with Lindholm. Is that linemates? Maybe partly, but it seemed like he was driving the line more than Dube or Lucic. Most people who commented figured he had a strong night, which makes a few in a row now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flame On

It seems passing odd to jump on me replying to a post about the extremes of opinion on a player and my point being they occur on both sides. I guess ultimately proving to me you are part of one of the extremes. But you be you.

LOL. Show me the extreme “pro-Monahan” posts compared to the “he’s replacement level” posts. To you, extreme seems to be “he’s playing better”.

[djsFlames]

Back to ragging on mony eh.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. Show me the extreme “pro-Monahan” posts compared to the “he’s replacement level” posts. To you, extreme seems to be “he’s playing better”.

You think he's playing better. That's not exactly a detailed analysis. And my point is that is just as drive-through as those that the original post was about.

I actually think he's improved since last year and surgery. Not fast enough, not to a high enough level, and I fear he never will. I do think his D game, and for example, his battling in the boards etc. is a lot better over last year. But I can still see deficiencies and I think it's fair when folks point that out.

[Since1984]

Get what you can and run

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Get what you can and run

Until he plays better you aren’t getting much and will have to take on some poor cap to do so.

Better to bet he will improve, and if you need to move him for cap relief at the end of the season, it will be a better bet . Even if he doesn’t improve, the expiring contract next year makes it easier to move him.

Doing so today would be foolish.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If you think he has earned his money over the past couple of years you are out to lunch. It's funny how the Monahan fans refuse to acknowledge that contract is bad now. It doesn't matter what he did years ago, he is never going to be a 30 goal impact player again.

I think he’s earned every penny of his contract. I also think you’re passing off your extreme opinions as facts. I’m not saying the money has been a good value for the team, but that’s different than saying he hasn’t earned it.

He’s been a great soldier that had repeatedly sacrificed himself playing injured to keep the team’s playoff bubble dreams afloat. His stats and some fans’ opinion of him have suffered, but he’s never whispered a peep about it while he’s done it. He’s likely accumulated most of the damage to his body that’s hampering him now during this contract, and some of it may very well be from repeatedly sacrificing himself for the team. He’s done all this with a life and career and beyond this contract.

It seems a little premature to be certain where his career is headed. In fact, it might be the worst time to evaluate that right now. It’s 1/4 way into a season with a new role where he’s come back from surgery again. Obviously his future doesn’t look like sunshine and rainbows but to say he’ll never be worth his contract or score 30 again seems extreme. Plenty of determined, older players mired in injuries have come back. How about Roberts and Lemieux? They both probably seemed a little more done than Monahan, no?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flame On

You think he's playing better. That's not exactly a detailed analysis. And my point is that is just as drive-through as those that the original post was about.

I actually think he's improved since last year and surgery. Not fast enough, not to a high enough level, and I fear he never will. I do think his D game, and for example, his battling in the boards etc. is a lot better over last year. But I can still see deficiencies and I think it's fair when folks point that out.

I’ve said ad nauseum what I think he’s doing better. I don’t have to repeat it every post.

People aren’t just “pointing out deficiencies”, that’s what Bingo was talking about. Somehow you think posts saying “he’s improving in this or that” are the same hyperbole as “he’s worthless”. If you show me a post saying he’s doing great, or that he’s an MVP candidate, now that would be equivalent.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I thought last night was one of his best games if not the best one this season. He was all over the puck. That is the Sean Monahan we know. And this is coming from someone that has been on the trade-Monahan-train for a while.

[Knightslayer]

Yeah he had a strong game. His line was probably best line all night.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Cause we keep getting argumentative contrarian posts and comments like "he's doing the little things" and "he's getting better and better" etc. Like what little things, doing up his laces?!
Drive by apologists are just as prevalent with that guy I assure you.

So Calgary Flames fans are pointing out little things about their former number one center and hoping he improves enough to help this team and you have a problem with that? Call them apologists? And do what you can to hammer them down?

Even toss in the snide little drive by about doing up his laces?

Why pray tell would you pitch a tent in the negative side of any player on a team you're cheering for?

I'm not arguing there are people seeing more than they are actually seeing, and running hope into the equation that the guy bounces back, but that doesn't have to be balanced by a crew of negative drive bys.

These are hockey fans, on a fan forum. Why do you feel you need to bring balance to the universe?

Monahan had a great game last night by the way. His line was humming. He was physical, and should have had a couple of points.

[Heavy Jack]

Monny looked fantastic last night and his whole line was buzzing which was great to see. The ‘he’s done’ crowd really leaning into their narrative now which is just bizarre to me. As flames fans shouldn’t we be heartened that Mony is starting to turn corners in his game?? Shouldn’t we be hoping for an offensive outburst akin to his younger years? Wouldn’t that help put this current iteration of the team ahead?? And he is doing the little things right, the details of the game, which are extremely important and he’s done all this while not complaining and accepted his role from Darryl. A consummate professional through and through… that’s what and who Sean Monahan is and personally I’m rooting for the guy to find a scoring touch again because he’s brilliant to watch when that part of his game is going.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Get Monahan another winger with some more skill and his scoring comes alive. Toffoli sure would be a good get for this team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Get Monahan another winger with some more skill and his scoring comes alive. Toffoli sure would be a good get for this team.

Sure thought Dube would take that step this year. Lucic has the IQ but obviously he lacks polish (except on his one neat trick). Maybe with some patience Dube can grow into it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sure thought Dube would take that step this year. Lucic has the IQ but obviously he lacks polish (except on his one neat trick). Maybe with some patience Dube can grow into it.

Backlund's line had a rough night, but the Monahan line looked good.

Assuming a bounce back from #11's trio that's the best the top nine has looked all year.

Lucic can't be top six.
Lewis shouldn't be top nine.

It worked.