[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[Bingo]

Look I'm not saying the player will rebound.

Just saying it's a quarter of a season in after a pretty major injury there may be more going on than we know.

And at almost .5 ppg (powerplay or not) someone likely takes a chance on him for one year, even if the Flames have to eat say $2M of his contract.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Look I'm not saying the player will rebound.

Just saying it's a quarter of a season in after a pretty major injury there may be more going on than we know.

And at almost .5 ppg (powerplay or not) someone likely takes a chance on him for one year, even if the Flames have to eat say $2M of his contract.

It's too easy to blame his regression on last season's injury. Monahan has been sliding ever since his production peaked in 2019 and even then it looked like he had his limitations.

If you assume a team that takes a chance on him is playing for something (why would anyone else go for it?) How is he even sold as an upgrade? On anyone that would currently be on the roster?

- Bad defensive player
- Slow
- Soft as
- Poor passer
- Handles the puck like a grenade
- Injury prone

Sign me up.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It's too easy to blame his regression on last season's injury. Monahan has been sliding ever since his production peaked in 2019 and even then it looked like he had his limitations.

If you assume a team that takes a chance on him is playing for something (why would anyone else go for it?) How is he even sold as an upgrade? On anyone that would currently be on the roster?

- Bad defensive player
- Slow
- Soft as
- Poor passer
- Handles the puck like a grenade
- Injury prone

Sign me up.

Well he's been hurt for three straight years.

Have a look around the league at players that get second chances. This isn't rocket science.

Players with production history, in their 20s, with only one year left on a contract will get a look.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Look I'm not saying the player will rebound.

Just saying it's a quarter of a season in after a pretty major injury there may be more going on than we know.

And at almost .5 ppg (powerplay or not) someone likely takes a chance on him for one year, even if the Flames have to eat say $2M of his contract.

I agree with all of this but I would say the 0.5 ppg paints a rosier picture than is really deserved. That is almost entirely coming on the PP. Yeah those points count but how much of that is simply being the beneficiary of what the other players are doing. His pace is 8 goals. 2 ES assists through 21 games.

Assuming he stays on this pace, is anyone paying $4.3 million for that? I don't see it. The club needs to hope he finds his game IMO for that to be likely.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree with all of this but I would say the 0.5 ppg paints a rosier picture than is really deserved. That is almost entirely coming on the PP. Yeah those points count but how much of that is simply being the beneficiary of what the other players are doing. His pace is 8 goals. 2 ES assists through 21 games.

Assuming he stays on this pace, is anyone paying $4.3 million for that? I don't see it. The club needs to hope he finds his game IMO for that to be likely.

To tell the truth, not much on the points I've seen. He actually created most of those points or was at least an equal contributor. I think the extra time and space is the biggest factor to the difference in production.

The ES production is obviously a concern. That said, I think he's skating and checking way better. But he and Dube are both struggling to score. I think he looked better with Lucic and Coleman.

[TheIronMaiden]

Monahan is on 40 pt pace. I get that is due to his power play time, but a 40 pt pace is nothing to sneeze at. Even with a $6,375,000 cap hit.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Monahan is on 40 pt pace. I get that is due to his power play time, but a 40 pt pace is nothing to sneeze at. Even with a $6,375,000 cap hit.

When almost all the points are on the power play and he brings nothing 5 on 5 or away from the pick then we can sneeze on that all day. He is the worst contract on the team. Lucic provides significantly more value than Monahan right now even if you swapped their cap hits

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Quite frankly I miss Moneyhands. He is one of the flames all time great goal scorers. Hip surgery would affect normal plebs like us but elite athletes like him will likely take longer. I remain hopeful he gets his strength and shot back. He has not looked good but the guy has earned a longer look on this team than 20 games, especially considering he played all of last year with a bad hip.

It's really interesting to see.

As a potential comparable, Tyler Seguin is really struggling right now for Dallas, and he is coming off similar surgery as Monahan.

Perhaps it is just an extended recovery issue, or perhaps there is more to it with this type of injury/surgery and how it impacts hockey players.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Two months into a season after an off season surgery, and a guy on a 40 point pace is getting bought out by some, and this isn't negative?

Finding other negative people isn't proof of realism!

It’s not negatively, it’s forecasting and the looking at reality of the situation. 99% of the defenses from the Monahan camp revolves around his surgery, but that’s specious reasoning at best. I didn’t hear any excuses being made during the 18-19 season when he set career highs in points and goals following his wrist surgery in 2018. Does anyone actually know whether or not his hip surgery is the reason he’s struggling, or is it because he no longer plays with Johnny Gaudreau? I know which one makes more sense to me.

The Monahan talk reminds me of the James Neal situation all over again. Lots of excuses being made because the team is playing well, but in the end, how did that situation turn out? Not good. Truthfully, this team needs him to produce, because there’s a serious cap crunch that will occur this offseason and not being able to trade Monahan’s cap hit would be disastrous. In all likelihood, it would cost the team a Dube and/or a Valimaki, possibly even a Hanifin. The potential cap implications are no joke.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

According to Dr. Google, hip arthroscopy surgery (which I'm assuming he had) may require up to 6 months before one can return to elite level fitness. He had surgery in late May. My math suggests he is at the 6 month timeframe....now.
I expect a rapid increase in production starting tonight.

I am a huge fan, and hope he can get back up to speed soon. He's clearly not there yet though. The surgery reasoning is losing steam at this point. Unless it didn't work and Monhan has chronic issues. Here's hoping that's not the case.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It’s not negatively, it’s forecasting and the looking at reality of the situation. 99% of the defenses from the Monahan camp revolves around his surgery, but that’s specious reasoning at best. I didn’t hear any excuses being made during the 18-19 season when he set career highs in points and goals following his wrist surgery in 2018. Does anyone actually know whether or not his hip surgery is the reason he’s struggling, or is it because he no longer plays with Johnny Gaudreau? I know which one makes more sense to me.

The Monahan talk reminds me of the James Neal situation all over again. Lots of excuses being made because the team is playing well, but in the end, how did that situation turn out? Not good. Truthfully, this team needs him to produce, because there’s a serious cap crunch that will occur this offseason and not being able to trade Monahan’s cap hit would be disastrous. In all likelihood, it would cost the team a Dube and/or a Valimaki, possibly even a Hanifin. The potential cap implications are no joke.

No the negativity is around the idea that he will have to be bought out.

That's pretty premature for a quarter into the season. You don't have to believe his hip is an issue, that's up to you. But given the fact we know he had surgery, not sure it's that much of a leap to think it could be a factor.

But other than that I'm not defending the player at all, just suggesting someone will take a chance on a .5 ppg player with on year left on his deal and the Flames able to eat part of it.

Not a lot controversial there.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

To tell the truth, not much on the points I've seen. He actually created most of those points or was at least an equal contributor. I think the extra time and space is the biggest factor to the difference in production.

The ES production is obviously a concern. That said, I think he's skating and checking way better. But he and Dube are both struggling to score. I think he looked better with Lucic and Coleman.

Everyone looks better with Coleman. I would love to see a scorer added to the second line and let Coleman play with Dube and Monahan.

I personally don’t remember his PP performance the same way but I admittedly can’t recall every point he has gotten. I feel that right now, his PP production is easily replaceable and I don’t see anyone paying much for it. His skating and checking are real weaknesses unfortunately and that hasn’t changed.

I’m advocating being patient with Monahan and I’m hopeful we see progression. Giving him PP time is more about helping him get confidence IMO. Sutter has cut his ice time dramatically and that should help him too as wear and tear is a concern. I just don’t see the point in sugar coating his performance thus far.

[CsInMyBlood]

The guy has 2 assists on the season 5 on 5.

If not for being carried on the powerplay he would have 2 points this season. 6.4 million cap hit. Absolutely no good.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

The guy has 2 assists on the season 5 on 5.

If not for being carried on the powerplay he would have 2 points this season. 6.4 million cap hit. Absolutely no good.

Almost as if there is more to the situation and numbers than a one liner.

[HighLifeMan]

I mean if he was actually being put in a position to produce offensively and wasn't then I could understand the criticism's... The times he has played with talent(on the PP) he has done his job.. His three most common linemates this season have 4 goals combined and two of those goals were empty netters.. He is playing borderline fourth line minutes in a Darryl Sutter system. What are we expecting here.. Lack of offense from the bottom six is a team wide problem..

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I mean if he was actually being put in a position to produce offensively and wasn't then I could understand the criticism's... The times he has played with talent(on the PP) he has done his job.. His three most common linemates this season have 4 goals combined and two of goals were empty netters.. He is playing borderline fourth line minutes in a Darryl Sutter system. What are we expecting here..

Monahan to play well enough to justify playing him with talent for more than borderline fourth line minutes?

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Monahan to play well enough to justify playing him with talent for more than borderline fourth line minutes?

Analytically he has been considerably better than the four players that have also played consistent bottom six minutes this season (Lewis, Richardson, Pitlick and Lucic). He's doing what is being asked of him.

[EVERLAST]

I didn't read every post but Sean should have been shut down way way way earlier than he was and so the Flames lack of planning doesn't constitute an emergency on his behalf as far as I see.

What these players have to go through to perform at the highest level is pretty remarkable and the fact #23 always did this broken or not is insane and he shouldn't have had to do it.

Who takes wounded warriors into battle and expects for them to perform at the same level as healthy soldiers is beyond my mind.

The Flames did this to themselves and Sean trying to and actually proving he could do it for as long as he did is just nuts.

When so much of an athlete is broken when do you finally realize ummmm.....maybe we need some time.

Really shifty asset management IMO.

Just because you could doesn't mean you should so this has come back to bite them in the arse.

[HighLifeMan]

40% of Sean Monahan's five on five ice time this season has been alongside Trevor Lewis - in those minutes here are the splits.

CF% - 41.88%
SF% - 47.13%
xGF% - 38.03%
SCF% - 44.16%
HDCF% - 39.13%
On-ice SH% - 2.44%
On-ice SV% - 93.48%

Monahan's five on five splits away from Lewis

CF% - 56.13%
SF% - 54.35%
xGF% - 54.85%
SCF% - 55.86%
HDCF% - 51.11%
On-ice SH% - 6.67%
On-ice SV% - 90.48%

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

When almost all the points are on the power play and he brings nothing 5 on 5 or away from the pick then we can sneeze on that all day. He is the worst contract on the team. Lucic provides significantly more value than Monahan right now even if you swapped their cap hits

Considering the context the contract is fine.

1. He has produced more than he was worth on this contract with the exception of the last two years.

2. He has suffered a career altering injury

With that in mind if you wanted to believe he has a bad contract then you could either believe that he did not produce up to the standard of his contract before his injury or that the injury was something that could have been foreseen 6 years ago before he signed his contract.

Otherwise it's just a bad thing that happened that was outside of everyone's control, shifting the debate from is the contract good to is it worth buying out someone who is on pace for 40 points.