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Old 11-22-2021, 08:44 PM   #441
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The celebratory vibes were more fun. Let's get back to that.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:45 PM   #442
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The reasons you state as making it difficult aren’t convincing enough for me. Travel like that is part of the game. It’s part of the job description when u sign in Calgary. Geographically we have to travel further than most other squads.

As far as routines I’m sure sutter and co have them designing some team specific routines, we don’t know what that dynamic looks like so how can we say their routines are being lost? For all we know they have home routines and road routines.

Not having last change is a thing but how much of a factor is it really?

And you’re saying that road games in hockey are more difficult than road games in football? I respectfully disagree sir.
LOL

'The Flames have to travel more than other teams, therefore travel shouldn't count as making their schedule harder.'

Electrifying analysis.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:45 PM   #443
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God damn....this is tiring



FLAMES WIN ! enjoy it !

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Old 11-22-2021, 08:48 PM   #444
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NSFW!
I must have watched this for 5 minutes before realizing it was on a loop. I was transfixed.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:51 PM   #445
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What's the point in winning if you can't be miserable about it?
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:52 PM   #446
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It's... not about... now though

It's... about this team's 82 game prorated goalscoring every season since Gaudreau entered the NHL.


2014-15 - 237 - and this was the year Giordano missed the latter quarter of the season
2015-16 - 229
2016-17 - 222
2017-18 - 216 - and this was that absolutely miserable Gulutzan year where the team was two places shy of DFL in shooting percentage
2018-19 - 289
2019-20 - 239
2020-21 - 227
2020-21 (Ward) - 222
2020-21 (Sutter) - 232


Your prediction, was that this team, which has bottomed out at 216 goals, was going to score fewer than 200 goals.

Now let's stop for a second.

"But we won't have Giordano!?"

Okay, so I'm going to establish one pretty basic statement - that secondary assists for defensemen are a pretty noisy statisitic (since there is no existence of a tertiary or quaternary assist, it requires a very specific circumstance to isolate value from a Dman's second assist)

And I'm going to follow that up with another statement: "The offensive skill defenseman on the 4F 1D powerplay is not of high impact compared to the offensive skill of the four forwards"

Based on these two statements, or if you insist, assumptions, let's look at the primary points totals of our defensemen last year (100+ minutes played 5v5):



It's pretty evident that Hanifin, Giordano, Andersson, and Valimaki, all in similar icetimes, were similar producers. Giordano wasn't this elite play creator last year. He was a solid #3, #4 defenseman for us. While his absence may have created a bit of an offensive hole, it was fair to assume that, even if Oliver Kylington didn't come and light the world on fire, Juuso Valimaki would have gotten some opportunity as Chris Tanev's partner, and probably produced at a rate offensively similar to Mark Giordano.

So really, where were you assuming this vacuum of goals to come from?

Surely not the 1st powerplay unit, which retained the four forwards (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Monahan) who have been a PP staple since 2018-19.

The bottom six? Last year's team had friggin Joakim Nordstrom on it. And while I'm a bit surprised at how productive our 4th line has been so far given the absense of Derek Ryan... it's also important to consider that the production of the 4th line is not a large portion of any team's season-end goal total. You can roughly apply that sensibility to the second powerplay unit as well. Does Edmonton even have one of those?

The second line? Backlund and Mangiapane have produced almost every single year at ES. You didn't even need to predict Mangiapane's wild season. Backlund's on-ice 5v5 goal pace last year was 50 goals. Playing a big chunk of it with the aformentioned Nordstrom.

The first line? Last season, Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk spent 165:07 together and scored 13 5v5 goals together. If you figure they'll spend about 15 minutes a game 5v5, that's over a goal per game just from your top line at 5v5. 82 goals.

So we already have 132 goals expected just from the top two lines 5v5. Without factoring in depth scoring, shorthanded goals, 3v3 goals, powerplay goals, etc etc. You really think all that couldn't amount to 68 goals?

Really?
Great post. I bet the goal regression was coming from monny and the defenceman mostly. I didn’t see the offence from Kyllington at all. I fee he has singlehandedly saved our offensive production from the dcorps.

I will disagree with the notion of valimaki producing at a similar clip to a Norris winning defenceman no matter how lovely that would be.

I even gave predictions for each player. Mind you those predictions called for 30 from eats bread. He’s on pace for 50 plus now. Backlund doesn’t look to be on his 50 point pace. Dube is snakebit. Tachuck is only scoring on the PP. Coleman doesn’t look like he’s going to score 30 or even 20. Even though it’s early.

Lindy 25-30
Johnny 25-30
Tachuck 25-30

75 -90

Mangiapane 30-35
Backs 10-15
Dube 10-15

50 -65

Where do the rest come from?

Lucic 10-15
Pitlick 5-10
Coleman 10-20

25-45

Richardson 5-10
Lewis 5- 10
Ritchie 1-5

11-25

That’s 161 from the fwds on the low end of my instincts.

So the dcorps is going to score 39 or more?

I don’t see it.

OK 5-10
Tanev 1-5
Rasmus 1-5
Hanifin 1-5
Zadorov 1-5
Gudbransson 1-5
Valimaki 1-5

That prediction chart leaves us with a range of 172 to 201.

I’d happily still make a bet with someone.

Your odds look even better right meow.

I’m happy to be wrong here but I just don’t see where the extra offence comes from unless eats bread keeps up his mojo.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:52 PM   #447
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I bet that if Flames would win all the remaining games 2-0 or 2-1, first thing he would say is «# told you they wouldn’t get to 200 goals#» instead of enjoying the fact that his supposedly favorite team just eclipsed the single season points record by over 20 points!

This team has been fun to watch this year and that’s all I want…to be entertained!
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:57 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom View Post
I won’t worm out of responsibility for my comments. I made a prediction and it’s still to be determined no matter how bleak it may appear.

I will still take the bet with someone or many. I will donate to CP if that’s the agreed upon stake.
I will gladly bet you $500 the Flames score more than 200 goals this season.
You get 199 and under. I get 201 and over.
200 exactly means we both donate $500 to CP.

Bet?
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:58 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
LOL

'The Flames have to travel more than other teams, therefore travel shouldn't count as making their schedule harder.'

Electrifying analysis.
That’s your synthesis of my message.

Show me a definitive and objective stat that more kms travelled by teams leads to more attrition or difficult relays then.

Travel is part of the game. I have even made posts about how much travel we face compared to others and thought it should be some inspiring feat. It just doesn’t translate to difficulty that evidently. They travel in private planes and sleep in 4 star hotels and eat the finest foods money can buy. The travel is only a minor issue. Sure they would probably rather be at home in their mansions or penthouses but let’s not act as if they are that hard done by.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:58 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing View Post
I will gladly bet you $500 the Flames score more than 200 goals this season.
You get 199 and under. I get 201 and over.
200 exactly means we both donate $500 to CP.

Bet?
500? All of a sudden now! Haha at least let’s make with some foreplay. I will bet 50.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:59 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Always Earned Never Given View Post
I bet that if Flames would win all the remaining games 2-0 or 2-1, first thing he would say is «# told you they wouldn’t get to 200 goals#» instead of enjoying the fact that his supposedly favorite team just eclipsed the single season points record by over 20 points!

This team has been fun to watch this year and that’s all I want…to be entertained!
The first thing I would say hey? Yawn
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:00 PM   #452
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All that matters is that double u.

Keep me hooked with a chance to score a double u and I'll keep watching.

Hail Satan. Hail goalies. Hail Sutter. Hail Johnny. Hail Tkachuk. Hail Kyl. Hail Lucic. Hail Iginla. Hail Ras. Hail big G. Hail Vali. Hail big Z. Hail Cornato. Hail Hanifin. Hail Backs. Hail Tre. Hail Lewis. Hail Dube. Hail Richardson. Hail Satan (again)
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:01 PM   #453
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“That’s 161 from the fwds on the low end of my instincts.”

But it’s 225 on the high end, and that’s before you get to the D. And your prediction chart isn’t between 172-201. It’s between 172 and 265. The median is 218.5
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:02 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom View Post
Great post. I bet the goal regression was coming from monny and the defenceman mostly. I didn’t see the offence from Kyllington at all. I fee he has singlehandedly saved our offensive production from the dcorps.

I will disagree with the notion of valimaki producing at a similar clip to a Norris winning defenceman no matter how lovely that would be.

I even gave predictions for each player. Mind you those predictions called for 30 from eats bread. He’s on pace for 50 plus now. Backlund doesn’t look to be on his 50 point pace. Dube is snakebit. Tachuck is only scoring on the PP. Coleman doesn’t look like he’s going to score 30 or even 20. Even though it’s early.

Lindy 25-30
Johnny 25-30
Tachuck 25-30

75 -90

Mangiapane 30-35
Backs 10-15
Dube 10-15

50 -65

Where do the rest come from?

Lucic 10-15
Pitlick 5-10
Coleman 10-20

25-45

Richardson 5-10
Lewis 5- 10
Ritchie 1-5

11-25

That’s 161 from the fwds on the low end of my instincts.

So the dcorps is going to score 39 or more?

I don’t see it.

OK 5-10
Tanev 1-5
Rasmus 1-5
Hanifin 1-5
Zadorov 1-5
Gudbransson 1-5
Valimaki 1-5

That prediction chart leaves us with a range of 172 to 201.

I’d happily still make a bet with someone.

Your odds look even better right meow.

I’m happy to be wrong here but I just don’t see where the extra offence comes from unless eats bread keeps up his mojo.
Did Monahan get traded?
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:03 PM   #455
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“That’s 161 from the fwds on the low end of my instincts.”

But it’s 225 on the high end, and that’s before you get to the D. And your prediction chart isn’t between 172-201. It’s between 172 and 265. The median is 218.5

Okay awesome. The median is 218.5 a lot of goals have to be scored for that to happen. I don’t think either of the three outcomes are impossible.

Any injuries and that skews is harshly towards the low end.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:04 PM   #456
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500? All of a sudden now! Haha at least let’s make with some foreplay. I will bet 50.
Bet.

To be clear:

Flames end of season season goal total on nhl.com 199 or less, I pay you $50.
Flames end of season goal total on nhl.com 201 or more, you pay me $50.
Exactly 200, we each donate $50 to CP.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:04 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom View Post
That’s your synthesis of my message.

Show me a definitive and objective stat that more kms travelled by teams leads to more attrition or difficult relays then.

Travel is part of the game. I have even made posts about how much travel we face compared to others and thought it should be some inspiring feat. It just doesn’t translate to difficulty that evidently. They travel in private planes and sleep in 4 star hotels and eat the finest foods money can buy. The travel is only a minor issue. Sure they would probably rather be at home in their mansions or penthouses but let’s not act as if they are that hard done by.
Travel is harder. You alluded to that by saying that’s part of playing in Calgary. But farther travel = longer road trips, less sleep, more weird practice schedule, less practice time, less rest overall. The Flames routinely don’t arrive at a new city until 3 am.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:05 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by Always Earned Never Given View Post
Did Monahan get traded?
He’s the biggest regression that I suggested but missed.

IMO he scores between 10-15. That adjusts it some what but the low end is still lower than 200.

Sadly I wish he could do more but his body looks like it is failing precipitously.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:06 PM   #459
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Okay awesome. The median is 218.5 a lot of goals have to be scored for that to happen. I don’t think either of the three outcomes are impossible.

Any injuries and that skews is harshly towards the low end.
Well it assumes your low end is right.

Injuries aren’t usually a zero sum game though. Players pick it up (look at Kadri in Mackinnon’s absence for example).
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:06 PM   #460
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Bet.

To be clear:

Flames end of season season goal total on nhl.com 199 or less, I pay you $50.
Flames end of season goal total on nhl.com 201 or more, you pay me $50.
Exactly 200, we each donate $50 to CP.
They score <200 you pay 50 dollars to CP in my honour.

They score more than 199 I will donate 50 dollars in your honour.

Finally some stakes.
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Last edited by Ziggy Lidstrom; 11-22-2021 at 10:18 PM.
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