Wheel of Time (Inevitable Spoilers Thread)

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hmm...

Okay, so there are some fans on here apparently.

Spoil away I suppose, I'm not going to be too upset at that, but in the meantime along with your discussions about how the show doesnt really track perfectly along with the books, could we also elaborate a little?

I gotta say, as someone who hasnt read the books, nor has any plans to, I'm somewhat intrigued by the show...but I do find at times that I trouble following whats going on in the over-arching scheme of things and getting a little lost.

Would you say that the show is expecting a little background knowledge or is it still just trying to find its feet?

I will do my best to flesh out my comments, it has been some time since I read the first few books so I might be a tiny bit off.

My remark on the sword has to do with the heron stamped on the blade. It comes up a lot in the books and Rand being given the sword by his father, who earned it, comes up frequently and is a driving force behind Rand working with Lan to improve is swordsmanship.

As Harry Lime mentioned, there is a lot made of Tam giving the sword to Rand in the books.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hmm...

Okay, so there are some fans on here apparently.

Spoil away I suppose, I'm not going to be too upset at that, but in the meantime along with your discussions about how the show doesnt really track perfectly along with the books, could we also elaborate a little?

I gotta say, as someone who hasnt read the books, nor has any plans to, I'm somewhat intrigued by the show...but I do find at times that I trouble following whats going on in the over-arching scheme of things and getting a little lost.

Would you say that the show is expecting a little background knowledge or is it still just trying to find its feet?

I think like any TV series based on a book series (e.g. Game of Thrones, the Expanse) there will be some depth to the world and background that doesn't come across and the first couple of episodes I could see it being difficult to keep up with everything going on. But so far it looks like the show is making an attempt to provide some of that background, even if it means inserting a bit of exposition. So I think people could enjoy it and figure out what's going on without having read the books, even if there is a bit "extra" that book readers would understand.

[Matata]

Really enjoying it so far, the first half of the first episode I was really picking it apart. They made it clear the characters were a bit more mature and we're getting an abbreviated story, I thought Egwene and Rand having sex was gross and really betrayed the original story, but it establishes their relationship and maturity without much camera time, so I get it. Then the Trolloc attack started and I put on my fanboy hat and left it there. The only thing I didn't like from the first 3 episodes that stayed with me was Thom's complete lack of a magnificent mustache.

I spent half a day reminiscing over the books with my brother and I'm still surprised by how much I forgot about: Ogier, White Cloaks and even Padan Fain. I even blurted out "Go #### yourself, Padan Fain" after he was introduced, cuz I'm a loser fanboy who's revelling in possibly my last chance to really be a loser fanboy over something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I think like any TV series based on a book series (e.g. Game of Thrones, the Expanse) there will be some depth to the world and background that doesn't come across and the first couple of episodes I could see it being difficult to keep up with everything going on. But so far it looks like the show is making an attempt to provide some of that background, even if it means inserting a bit of exposition. So I think people could enjoy it and figure out what's going on without having read the books, even if there is a bit "extra" that book readers would understand.

See...I have no issue with that. I actually think thats a much better way of framing a series, much like The Mandalorian.

You dont need to have read every book and seen every show or whatever, it stands on its own, but people more immersed in the world will get a little extra out of it.

No problem.

But the content of the show should stand on its own.

As long as we dont get into the Game of Thrones 'bookreaders vs show-watchers' BS again.

I'm not a huge 'Fantasy Genre' kind of person, but GoT turned out really well (mostly) so I'm willing to give something like this a good shot.

[Harry Lime]

Episode 2 : Thoughts

I can see what they are doing with the first few episodes now. They are really getting into some of the nitty gritty of the world building, which makes sense to introduce the series to a new audience. That mean a lot of the character development is feeling a little rushed, but now that they have separated some of the characters smaller groups, I'm hoping that they slow down a bit an let the characters breathe.

Two episodes in, and a viewer should know that there are Aes Sedai, Whitecloaks, a mention of Borderlands, trollocs and Fades, even some of the wider world such as the White Tower and Logain's War. That's a big exposition dump. I hope that they leave it at that for a bit, and let the characters wander into some situations, letting the world explain itself.

So far, a pretty good start and really setting the stage moving forward. Even got a mention of Manetheren in there. All that a new watcher would need to know about that is that Manetheren (the Two Rivers) is a backwater that had very little distillation of the 'old blood', meaning that people with more unusual abilities are likely to be born there. They are also basically hicks.

Time to have an episode where Perrin can grieve his wife, for God's sakes.

[Aeneas]

“even blurted out "Go #### yourself, Padan Fain" after he was introduced, “

It has been long since I read the books.
Forgot about him, and as I remembered I had the same reaction.

Loved the song and then the AES Sendai telling them the history of the Two Rivers /Manetheren.

Enjoyed.

[photon]

I think the biggest change that I'm not sure how they'll resolve is.. and I'll put this one in spoilers because it's pretty key to the overall plot...

Spoiler!

Moraine says the Dragon Reborn can be a guy or a girl. Or least it's implied, though I guess she probably said "one of you is the Dragon", but if she knows for sure it's Rand why would she want all of them along?

But it doesn't make much sense for a girl to be the DR, since the female half of the True Source isn't tainted. I guess maybe it doesn't matter since a circle is involved in doing stuff like cleansing saidin or sealing the Dark One's prison anyway?

Just not sure if this hints at a larger departure from how magic works in the books.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by photon

I think the biggest change that I'm not sure how they'll resolve is.. and I'll put this one in spoilers because it's pretty key to the overall plot...

Spoiler!

Moraine says the Dragon Reborn can be a guy or a girl. Or least it's implied, though I guess she probably said "one of you is the Dragon", but if she knows for sure it's Rand why would she want all of them along?

But it doesn't make much sense for a girl to be the DR, since the female half of the True Source isn't tainted. I guess maybe it doesn't matter since a circle is involved in doing stuff like cleansing saidin or sealing the Dark One's prison anyway?

Just not sure if this hints at a larger departure from how magic works in the books.

Spoiler!

There seemed to be some implication of magic being a bit different in the first scene with Logain, without book knowledge my interpretation would have been one source of magic that is tainted when a male touches it. I guess we'll find out more as the show progresses.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by photon

I think the biggest change that I'm not sure how they'll resolve is.. and I'll put this one in spoilers because it's pretty key to the overall plot...

Spoiler!

Moraine says the Dragon Reborn can be a guy or a girl. Or least it's implied, though I guess she probably said "one of you is the Dragon", but if she knows for sure it's Rand why would she want all of them along?

But it doesn't make much sense for a girl to be the DR, since the female half of the True Source isn't tainted. I guess maybe it doesn't matter since a circle is involved in doing stuff like cleansing saidin or sealing the Dark One's prison anyway?

Just not sure if this hints at a larger departure from how magic works in the books.

I don't think it's that big of an issue to resolve.

Spoiler!

I think it's to make non-readers more engaged on who the Dragon reborn is, as it allows it to be any of the 4 ta'veren. And come one, Egwene was always Ta'veren even if they never said it. Elayne as well probably. I think the magic system will be the same, just is a nod towards how useless Aes Sedai are after 3000 years they can't even remember prophecy properly.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

Spoiler!

There seemed to be some implication of magic being a bit different in the first scene with Logain, without book knowledge my interpretation would have been one source of magic that is tainted when a male touches it. I guess we'll find out more as the show progresses.

Spoiler!

I think they will still have saidar and saidin, I mean you can't believe anything that comes out of Liandrin's mouth anyway.

[Harry Lime]

Episode 3 - Thoughts

I think that this is where they start to find their rhythm, and why three episodes were released at once to start off. I felt like the first two episodes didn't leave a lot of time to take a breath, and this one allowed all of the groups to stay put for a little while and actually talk to each other.

There are already departures from the books, which makes it easier for everyone new to follow along, and gives those that have read the books an ability to be surprised.

Thom Merrilin is a welcome jolt of personality. I like the emphasis on Darkfriends as a major potential villain, and it will be nice if we spend enough time with some of them to actually know them as characters.

I forgot how deep this world actually was. Totally blanked on the Tu'athan, and happy to already see reference to Aiel. Although in my mind I pronounce them 'ALE'.

I see some real progression from episode to episode. Condensing the books gives them a lot of leeway in storytelling. Aside from Thom, most of the best characters haven't even been introduced yet!

[photon]

Also agree that they totally missed on an awesome Thom moustache.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

“even blurted out "Go #### yourself, Padan Fain" after he was introduced, “

It has been long since I read the books.
Forgot about him, and as I remembered I had the same reaction.

Loved the song and then the AES Sendai telling them the history of the Two Rivers /Manetheren.

Enjoyed.

I'm also proud of: "Perrin ain't got no wife, bitch, you gonna die."

[GreenLantern]

I'll be honest, when I was reading the books and they described Tom I just pictured Lanny McDonald and that stuck with me through out.

[J epworth]

Really enjoyed how they portrayed Logain in episode 4, and so much foreshadowing this episode!

[photon]

Lol Nynaeve went Super Saijin

[Harry Lime]

Episode 4 - Settling things down

I actually liked the way that they dealt with Rand and Mat's travels, which was a bit of a drag in the books. They could have explained Mat's state of mind a little better. There was a throwaway line in the books, that a pebble from Shadar Logath stuck in your shoe will eventually corrupt and kill you. It also shadows what happens when a man channels for too long. I'm not sure if a viewer coming from scratch would get the significance of the dagger.

Later, Thom. It's been grand.

Enjoying Logain. Also that they are starting to get into the politics of the world a bit, talking about Ajahs at the White Tower. I'm expecting that they will expound on the 'link' and gentling of Logain in the next episode. It's time there is some friction beyond simply Light and Dark.

After the breakneck speed of the first two episodes, character development is finally taking a bigger role. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the showrunners that things will be explained in due course.

I'm also trying to be careful to not talk about future events, but some of the small things that are in the show that have some significance, it's worth pointing out.

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Episode 4 - Settling things down

I actually liked the way that they dealt with Rand and Mat's travels, which was a bit of a drag in the books. They could have explained Mat's state of mind a little better. There was a throwaway line in the books, that a pebble from Shadar Logath stuck in your shoe will eventually corrupt and kill you. It also shadows what happens when a man channels for too long. I'm not sure if a viewer coming from scratch would get the significance of the dagger.

Later, Thom. It's been grand.

Enjoying Logain. Also that they are starting to get into the politics of the world a bit, talking about Ajahs at the White Tower. I'm expecting that they will expound on the 'link' and gentling of Logain in the next episode. It's time there is some friction beyond simply Light and Dark.

After the breakneck speed of the first two episodes, character development is finally taking a bigger role. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the showrunners that things will be explained in due course.

I'm also trying to be careful to not talk about future events, but some of the small things that are in the show that have some significance, it's worth pointing out.

Not to mention some of the changes they have made will have big implications later on and will necessitate more changes down the road.

[J epworth]

This episode was so far off from the books, but somehow felt most wheel of time of the 4 episodes so far. Gives me hope that when they do inevitably veer far from the source material it’ll still work.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by J epworth

This episode was so far off from the books, but somehow felt most wheel of time of the 4 episodes so far. Gives me hope that when they do inevitably veer far from the source material it’ll still work.

Totally agree. It is completely unreasonable for them to try to track the books. You just can't translate a 13 book series into a tv show. But they have done a pretty good job of keeping the major points (even if they jump around a little).


Nynaeve's AoE Cure-All is a great example. Healing doesn't even work like that in the books (you have to touch the person you are healing), but it sent shivers down my spine. good stuff.