COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm just curious if he has indicated at what point it would be ok. What information will have him say "ok, now it's safe enough"?


Is there any legitimate concern from the scientific community that their could be long term issues? From what I've read, all evidence of it is gone from your system within weeks. The only evidence is a trained immune system, which is something vaccines have done for decades.

I wish. Small town living, we're surrounded by anti-vaxxers who are usually very smart people but who are also feeding the misinformation train. Like I said, I'm sure we'll revisit the conversation when the permission slip comes from the school. There haven't been any reports out of the US of large numbers of children dying so hopefully that helps.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Pardon me, you're right. Not polio.

Regardless "essentially" the same means there have been changes. There have been changes in the vaccines and vaccination schedule since my oldest was born in 2015 to what my youngest has received since she was born in 2020. Even if they are 'essentially' the same and she is getting the same protections, there have been changes.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with safety. Vaccines get reformulated for practical reasons, like combining multiple vaccines into one shot (the current polio vaccine is part of the DTaP-HB-IPV-Hib vaccine which covers 6 diseases), or in some cases to extend the shelf life or make handling requirements simpler. Ultimately, the polio vaccines in use today are the same as the originals. They use 3 serotypes of inactivated polio viruses (Salk IPV vaccine) or live attenuated viruses (Sabin OPV vaccine). The safety profile of each hasn't changed or been improved upon in the 60+ years that they've existed.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FireFly

My husband who only got the shot to appease his work is not going to allow our 6 year old to get the shot... At least not yet. Definitely waiting on more information. We follow the "two yes, one no" rule in our household in regards to our kids. We either both need to agree or it doesn't happen.

My 6 year old cannot make the decision on her own, it's up to us. Regardless of how safe and effective these vaccinations have proven to be for now, there cannot have been any long term studies because it hasn't been around long term. Other vaccinations which have been around long term, have also been modified repeatedly after their initial versions. Anyone have a polio shot scar? I don't but my mom does. Vaccines become safer the more information we have. We've had mRNA vaccines now for less than two years. There just is not enough data for him to feel comfortable yet.

I'm sure you've heard enough commercials "If you or someone you loved has ever taken X drug, you may be entitled to compensation." Well, we don't want that to be our kids in 20 years because of something we made them do.

This might be a stupid question and I’m not trying to be insulting

But why is do nothing the default stance in your two yes one no rule?

Right now you exist in a 1 No 1 yes scenario for Not getting the vaccine. You don’t have 2 Yes’s to not get the vaccine.

Choosing to not get vaccinated is just as much of an active choice as choosing to be vaccinated.

This isn’t status quo or get vaccinated it’s Choosing to have your child get Covid with or without the additional protection of a vaccine.

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by GGG

This might be a stupid question and I’m not trying to be insulting

But why is do nothing the default stance in your two yes one no rule?

Right now you exist in a 1 No 1 yes scenario for Not getting the vaccine. You don’t have 2 Yes’s to not get the vaccine.

Choosing to not get vaccinated is just as much of an active choice as choosing to be vaccinated.

This isn’t status quo or get vaccinated it’s Choosing to have your child get Covid with or without the additional protection of a vaccine.

It is a common bias that doing nothing and something bad happens is better than doing something and having something bad happen. You don't have to blame yourself.

[Buff]

Did they change the rules for under 18 kids? My boys, who are both vaccinated have to show proof of vaccine and ID to enter the arena to play hockey down here in Lethbridge now. My 13 year old doesn't have government issued picture ID but he wasn't playing tonight.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Welp, finally took the time to get my booster shot today. The wife did the same.

That's 3x for my wife and I, and one for my 6 year old with his second in 2 weeks.

Other people around the world can't even get their first dose.

Surely, there has to be a point where this high-tech colonialism stops, no?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Buff

Did they change the rules for under 18 kids? My boys, who are both vaccinated have to show proof of vaccine and ID to enter the arena to play hockey down here in Lethbridge now. My 13 year old doesn't have government issued picture ID but he wasn't playing tonight.

Under 18 do not have a requirement to show ID under the Alberta REP program. Individual munipicalities could have more strict requirements though and I'm not sure if the City of Calgary under their vaccine passport mandate has a requirement for under 18 ID or if Lethbridge would have an ID requirement under any bylaw that they might have passed.

[Buff]

I think the security guard was misinformed. Lethbridge has no special by-law for vaccine. They are following the province's mandates for this. I had to meet my kids at the arena last night and my eldest said he had to show vax and ID. He's just 16 but 6'3 so I figured the guy thought he was older.

I came with him tonight and he had to show it again and the security guy told me that 12 and up can be vaccinated so they have to show proof and ID. He said the vaccine rules changed on the 15th. So I asked about my 13 year old since he doesn't have gov't. Issued ID and he said they have to prove that the QR belongs to the kid. It just didn't add up to me.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Buff

I think the security guard was misinformed. Lethbridge has no special by-law for vaccine. They are following the province's mandates for this. I had to meet my kids at the arena last night and my eldest said he had to show vax and ID. He's just 16 but 6'3 so I figured the guy thought he was older.

I came with him tonight and he had to show it again and the security guy told me that 12 and up can be vaccinated so they have to show proof and ID. He said the vaccine rules changed on the 15th. So I asked about my 13 year old since he doesn't have gov't. Issued ID and he said they have to prove that the QR belongs to the kid. It just didn't add up to me.

https://www.alberta.ca/covid-records-helpdesk.aspx

Under Verify Identity:

"Businesses participating in the Restrictions Exemption Program must verify the identity of patrons 18 and older by ensuring the name and birthdate on their proof of vaccination record matches their ID to allow entry."

Obviously when dealing with a poorly informed person that is trying to implement the REP it can be pretty fruitless to try to argue the rules with them.

[Knut]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1462538031022358530

[photon]

They intentionally didn't check Telegram for reports of myocarditis, they want to hide the truth.

[FireFly]

Not sure why it isn't quoting GGG, but the two yes or one no rule applies to everything we discuss regarding our children. Who we are comfortable letting them stay with or babysit, what we are comfortable allowing them do, etc. This isn't just regarding vaccines; it's a parenting technique that ensures we are either on the same page, or we close the book for a time before we revisit. (Another great example is having certain people around our children. If I think someone gives off creeper vibes, why would my husband's yes to that person being around our child trump my hesitancy?) I have to be deferential to my husband's hesitancy as we both want what's best for our child.



Your statements are leading; it's a 1 yes 1 no for both getting the vaccine or not getting it but not getting it will not ensure that our child WILL get Covid, just as getting the vaccine will not ensure our child will NOT get it.



And for Tiger, either way there is the potential for blame. If we don't get her vaccinated and she contracts Covid, my husband takes the blame. If we do get her vaccinated and it turns out she has a reaction or whatever, I take the blame. If we're both on the same page, we share the blame regardless of the outcome. What we don't want is a situation where there is resentment on either side.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Your statements are leading; it's a 1 yes 1 no for both getting the vaccine or not getting it but not getting it will not ensure that our child WILL get Covid, just as getting the vaccine will not ensure our child will NOT get it.

Everyone's going to be exposed to COVID at some point; it's just the nature of endemic diseases. The chances of a person not getting COVID (or being exposed enough to get it if they weren't immune) over the next few years is probably about as likely as not getting a cold in the same time period.

[TorqueDog]

Parents making stupid excuses not to get their kids vaccinated right away will fast become the most annoying part of the pandemic for me.

Seriously. Everyone's wanting to get back to living life, but "no wait, our school-aged kids under 12 aren't vaccinated yet", and now you have the chance to address that and help curb a considerable amount of spread, and you're stalling for boneheaded reasons. Great.

[Knut]

Yup.. About 50% . I am hoping my kids school is higher, but I doubt it. I want them to announce booking so I get them in ASAP. Ontario is opening it up for tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1462844188643315715

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Parents making stupid excuses not to get their kids vaccinated right away will fast become the most annoying part of the pandemic for me.

Seriously. Everyone's wanting to get back to living life, but "no wait, our school-aged kids under 12 aren't vaccinated yet", and now you have the chance to address that and help curb a considerable amount of spread, and you're stalling for boneheaded reasons. Great.

If you're comfortable going against the wishes of your spouse in anything and for any reason, good for you. Things like this could end in divorce if you let it. I'm not going to let it. I will wait until he is comfortable. Telling people their excuses are stupid and boneheaded definitely won't help matters and doesn't add to the discourse. Me telling my husband that over 3 million children 5-11 in the US have already been vaccinated with one dose and there are 0 cases of myocarditis so far might help. My guess is he'd like to wait until there are that many with two doses and still no myocarditis (as chances go up on second dose,) before he's willing to pull the trigger.

Like I said, I would get her vaccinated, but my husband isn't willing YET. I'm not going to go against him to do it because it would make YOU more comfortable.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If you're comfortable going against the wishes of your spouse in anything and for any reason, good for you. Things like this could end in divorce if you let it. I'm not going to let it. I will wait until he is comfortable. Telling people their excuses are stupid and boneheaded definitely won't help matters and doesn't add to the discourse. Me telling my husband that over 3 million children 5-11 in the US have already been vaccinated with one dose and there are 0 cases of myocarditis so far might help. My guess is he'd like to wait until there are that many with two doses and still no myocarditis (as chances go up on second dose,) before he's willing to pull the trigger.

Like I said, I would get her vaccinated, but my husband isn't willing YET. I'm not going to go against him to do it because it would make YOU more comfortable.

You can share this with him as well, if it's his biggest concern:

The risk of myocarditis for children under 16 years is 37 times higher for those infected with COVID-19 than those who haven’t been infected with the virus, according to a new study.

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews...eck=redirected


Because it is going to be endemic, pretty much everyone will get exposed. So by not vaccinating, you are exposing your kid to far more risk of myocarditis, and the vaccine obviously protects against many other ill effects of covid.


I can understand, emotionally, why some people might want to wait. But logically, it is the incorrect choice. I tend to think myocarditis isn't really a fear, it's just something you can point to as a manifestation of people's fear around giving something new to a kid. You could replace myocarditis with anything.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If you're comfortable going against the wishes of your spouse in anything and for any reason, good for you. Things like this could end in divorce if you let it. I'm not going to let it. I will wait until he is comfortable. Telling people their excuses are stupid and boneheaded definitely won't help matters and doesn't add to the discourse. Me telling my husband that over 3 million children 5-11 in the US have already been vaccinated with one dose and there are 0 cases of myocarditis so far might help. My guess is he'd like to wait until there are that many with two doses and still no myocarditis (as chances go up on second dose,) before he's willing to pull the trigger.

Like I said, I would get her vaccinated, but my husband isn't willing YET. I'm not going to go against him to do it because it would make YOU more comfortable.

It is tough. I know of multiple families with big rifts because of vaccine beliefs. At least one is heading to divorce. Sometimes a compromise of wait and see is ok. Have him keep an eye on data in the US. 10% of 5-11 year olds have been vaccinated there with zero cases of myocarditis so far.

[nfotiu]

For most people over 20ish or so, it is a no brainer that the risks of COVID are many tmies more dangerous than any possible risks of the vaccine, and choosing to not get vaccinated is the unequivocal wrong choice.

I don't know that you can necessarily say that is true for children. I think you can say that the vaccine's are very safe, and getting your child vaccinated is an important tool in stopping the spread. But, I don't necessary think it is a slam dunk that the risks of COVID for a healthy child are multiple times any possible vaccine risk. It's overwhelmingly likely that it is the better choice to get your kids vaccinated, but I don't think it is a slam dunk 100% case for an individual's child's health risk.

The frustrating part is that it wouldn't probably even be necessary to get kids vaccinated if all adult's did. But since they won't, then we need the kids numbers to boost our chances of herd immunity and being able to move on.

I got my kids (13&15) vaccinated on the first day available. But, I'm not going to be too judgmental on those that don't. I don't have any tolerance for the parents telling everyone else that they are killing their kids by getting them vaccinated, especially when they themselves didn't get vaccinated and are the reason that the kids need to get it.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If you're comfortable going against the wishes of your spouse in anything and for any reason, good for you. Things like this could end in divorce if you let it. I'm not going to let it. I will wait until he is comfortable. Telling people their excuses are stupid and boneheaded definitely won't help matters and doesn't add to the discourse. Me telling my husband that over 3 million children 5-11 in the US have already been vaccinated with one dose and there are 0 cases of myocarditis so far might help. My guess is he'd like to wait until there are that many with two doses and still no myocarditis (as chances go up on second dose,) before he's willing to pull the trigger.

Like I said, I would get her vaccinated, but my husband isn't willing YET. I'm not going to go against him to do it because it would make YOU more comfortable.

I was speaking broadly given the 50% expected uptake for 5-11 vaccination mentioned, but since you decided to stand in front of my statement, I have had difficult conversations with my spouse where I have had to explain to her that she is being unreasonable and/or irrational about something (she and her mother both got their first ever flu shots this year because of me), and I've done so without ending up divorced or even sleeping on the couch. Difficult conversations are part of what being married is.

To be clear, it doesn't make me more comfortable, I have my shots. But it is tiresome and annoying that we continue to have restrictions in our daily lives and there continue to be unhelpful people who let bad reasons get in the way of positive steps toward a conclusion. Vaccination will be the way out of this.