Flames players analytics data

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Biggest number on that for Kylington is actually the 9.1% on ice shooting percentage.

He's not rocking a 20% on ice percentage that's unsustainable.

If anything it's actually a bit low compared to others in the top 10.

If he can start getting some powerplay time his numbers are going to skyrocket.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would've been all over the Flames getting Gostisbehere in the summer, especially instead of Zadorov.

Ghostisbehere is the worst guy in the league at playing defense. The Flyers couldn't wait to get rid of him. He is one of those guys who gets points but costs his team as he gives the points right back.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Biggest number on that for Kylington is actually the 9.1% on ice shooting percentage.

He's not rocking a 20% on ice percentage that's unsustainable.

If anything it's actually a bit low compared to others in the top 10.

His oiSH% might be sustainable, but his Individual Point Production of 83.33% (percentage of on-ice goals to which a point is awarded) is pretty unsustainable. Last year Thomas Chabot led all defensemen in this stat 5v5 with 60.53% - and second-place John Carlson was further behind at 54.35%. Norris Trophy winner Adam Fox only got a point on 41.86% of 5v5 goals scored while he was on the ice.

*that number is before his point today. I'm guessing that number goes up after the game.

[FanIn80]

2 more 5v5 slices tonight (so far...)

[FanIn80]

Mangiapane is now leading the entire NHL in total 5v5 goals and 5v5 goals per 60 minutes. In fact, his G/60 right now is 3.11... let that sink in... he's scoring 5v5 goals at a rate of 3.11 every 60 minutes. That's insane! The next closest to him is Kyle Conner at 2.06, followed by Tarasenko at 1.99.

Also, Johnny just crept into 5th place in 5v5 points per 60 minutes (Mangiapane is 3rd).

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Ghostisbehere is the worst guy in the league at playing defense. The Flyers couldn't wait to get rid of him. He is one of those guys who gets points but costs his team as he gives the points right back.

This isn't backed up by any numbers.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

This isn't backed up by any numbers.

Which is why you shouldn't just rely on numbers

[TheScorpion]

I've watched Gostisbehere plenty this year. He's been fine defensively.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I've watched Gostisbehere plenty this year. He's been fine defensively.

Agree that he has been somewhat better this year, but it's a small sample size, and there is 6 years of indisputable data that needs to be overcome.

And you have a tendency to favour defensemen that show some offense, over defensemen who are good at shutting players down (something he is incapable of)

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Agree that he has been somewhat better this year, but it's a small sample size, and there is 6 years of indisputable data that needs to be overcome.

I would toss Gostisbehere's play under Alain Vigneault out personally, because the style of play there isn't always conducive to the desired results. Much like Tanev's play in Vancouver towards the end - it might be worth raising an eyebrow over, but I'd dismiss the apparent results because a multitude of factors will always outweigh one inidividual's ability.

I don't know what Gostisbehere's numbers even look like prior to AV, so I don't know if they're good or bad - but I do know Gostisbehere has shown the ability to dominate games, and from my own recollection he peaked when Radko Gudas was his partner, so there was some synergy there that can't be isolated to one or the other.

And you have a tendency to favour defensemen that show some offense, over defensemen who are good at shutting players down (something he is incapable of)

And this isn't the unadulterated display of bias you're always painting it as. Not every player needs to be capable of shutting star players down. Even if Gostisbehere's defensive calibre is limited to the level of a guy like Justin Schultz or Shea Theodore circa 2017.... these are guys who were able contributors on some damn good teams in the right role becauae offense is really, really valuable.

[Enoch Root]

except this was a conversation about playing defense

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Agree that he has been somewhat better this year, but it's a small sample size, and there is 6 years of indisputable data that needs to be overcome.

And you have a tendency to favour defensemen that show some offense, over defensemen who are good at shutting players down (something he is incapable of)

He's not a shutdown d-man but to say he's the "worst defensive d-man" in the league as that other poster mentioned is just false.

He's a good offensive d-man, that can help a PP, and who isn't a liability defensively if used in a role that isn't expected to play against other teams top lines.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He's not a shutdown d-man but to say he's the "worst defensive d-man" in the league as that other poster mentioned is just false.

He's a good offensive d-man, that can help a PP, and who isn't a liability defensively if used in a role that isn't expected to play against other teams top lines.

that's the thing - he's been nothing but.

Anyway, I am out.

[TheScorpion]

There's really just nothing out there to show that Gostisbehere has been among the worst defensive defencemen in the league in the last five years or so. And his offence has almost always been good enough to at least offset any defensive deficiencies.

Man he's underrated.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

that's the thing - he's been nothing but.

Anyway, I am out.

Based on what though?

Sure he's small and can't be seen as a physical top pairing defensive defenseman.

But his defensive analytics are generally just "average" to maybe slightly "below average" and there is nothing that screams a liability defensively or being the worst defensive d-man in the league.

The fact that Philly gave up a 2nd to get rid of Ghostisbehere to then trade a 1st for Ristolainen (who is actually a defensive liability) remains hilarious.

[TheScorpion]

I think you meant top pairing offensive defenceman, but otherwise — yes.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I've watched Gostisbehere plenty this year. He's been fine defensively.

Agreed Scorpion. I think he’s living in the shadow of his reputation as a poor/awful defender. Players can improve, looks like he has

Same goes for Gudbranson, IMO. Vastly improved this season for whatever reason

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

that's the thing - he's been nothing but.

Anyway, I am out.

There is defensive value in simply being able to retrieve dumpins, make a first pass, and hold the puck at the offensive blueline where another player might allow a zone exit.

Too much weight to the concept of defense is given purely to being a crease-clearer. I think the success of the Gostisbehere-Gudas pairing (at least in my recollection, maybe they were an analytically terrible pair) was because they offset each other's strengths and weaknesses - defensively. It's easy to say "one guy was a liability" but chances are that it was mutually beneificial... assuming it was.

[Knut]

Coaches putting players in a proper role makes a difference as well. Gostibehere got way too much exposure to top line players in Philly then became a whipping boy. Deployed properly he would have been better off.

[SuperMatt18]

Role, slotting among other d-men, and the overall quality of a team has such an impact on how a defenseman looks and is perceived.