[GDT] Flames @ Sabres, 5pm, SN360

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by peter12

I love Jiri. I also love Mr. Coffee. My affections are torn when they fight.

Lol I’m not fighting with anyone, Jiri or dino7c, regardless if he interprets things as a shot when they aren’t.

I have no issue with jiris post, he was just calling it as he sees it so maybe my tone does need a fixin, as mentioned I wouldn’t know unless people tell me I suppose.

No qualms with anything Dino has said either to be honest, he’s right that we can wait until we see Eichel play to really make a sound determination that’s a fair statement for sure. I should have said “I think…” rather than the blanket matter-of-fact statement. It was not a shot at Dino, you can call out people by name but that does not inherently mean you are taking a shot at them. Communication is a two way street so I am legitimately saying I do not think or intend for it to be a shot, he’s a great fan and contributes a ton here. I’m just saying he legitimately defends the Flames at almost every opportunity and I can’t say I have ever seen him criticize anything they do- which again is completely okay. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s just not how I would approach things. We can write what we think, I’m just pointing out thay (obvious to me anyway) not everything the Flames do is defendable and ergo Dino is wrong / I disagree with him sometimes but that is not a shot at him personally. Maybe I’m just not explaining what I am thinking very well.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Honestly though let’s get this discussion back on track! Eichel doesn’t even play for Buffalo anymore so why are we talking about him in the game day thread?

https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-...nding-duo-nhl/

How about our goaltending duo atm! What game does Darth get on the weekend?

Vader will face his old team, the Ewoks?

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by peter12

You aren't a mod anymore.

I'm not a mod either and would suggest that you're the last person on this board to want to comment on tone.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well that isn't true...I push back against people who are just negative

the FACT is there are 30 teams that didn't acquire Eichel and we have no idea how it will turn out

Its also a FACT we have no idea what it would have taken

Buffalo loved Krebs, Tuch had more points than Mangiapane last season and actually likes Buffalo

Also it is a FACT that the Knights need to remove more quality players from their lineup.

IF Eichel comes back and puts up 100+ points and the Knights are a top team then we can have more of a debate.

Acting like its already happened is the issue


there is plenty of context here

You don't even acknowledge this could be an absolute disaster for Vegas

It’s possible it could be a disaster for Vegas but I think that’s very improbable. Just like how it’s possible he could get hit by a car and never play again it’s possible but improbable.

I should have said “I think” this will prove to be a Flames mistake. I also am making the assumption that the rumours of asking price, Flames being in on it, etc. are all true- so from a fairly biased lens I will happily admit.

I also think that if Eichel turns out to be as legit as I think he is, we will read on this website all kinds of different theories as to why Calgary couldn’t / shouldn’t have done it, or that we will never know what happened, or whatever. And as a Flames fan, it is kind of annoying not having a number one C forever and then not only that but being stuck in constant mediocrity where you’ll never get a high enough draft pick to get one.

So once a (lifetime?) player like Eichel comes up- I think you gotta get it done somehow.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

We know what the player went for - a middle six forward, a 1st round pick that’s going to be between 16-32, the 17th overall pick in 2019 and a 3rd rounder.

A team of professional hockey executives could’ve surmised what it would be, and put together an offer that would’ve been impossible for the Sabres to refuse.

But they didn’t.

So here we are.

And a net $5 mil cap hit.
And no cap dump going the other way.
And no asset over the age of 25 going the other way.

Punch that in the calculator and see what the Flames offer has to look like.

[Heavy Jack]

I do agree that with the flames seemingly being in it right up until the end it makes you feel like they could or should have done more. To have a Center like Eichel operating at 100 percent is drool worthy with the wingers we have so it would be interesting to know how far Treliving went and how far he wasn’t willing to go. I think everyone in here can admit that the initial cost for Vegas is remarkably lower than what we all had been speculating and honestly to what the media had been speculating, though like I said earlier and how Dion had also pointed out Vegas has considerable cap to clear without take anything back on in order to make this work. With what was supposedly on offer I can’t help but think the Flames were better positioned than Vegas to take on the burden of Eichel’s surgery and recovery. At the end of the day I think it can’t be overlooked that Adam’s might have had a different opinion of the players and prospects being offered, especially Krebs who was part of the rumours for months, which might have made it impossible for the flames no matter what they tried.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And a net $5 mil cap hit.
And no cap dump going the other way.
And no asset over the age of 25 going the other way.

Punch that in the calculator and see what the Flames offer has to look like.

So Lindy (and convince them that he's a young 26) or Mangiapane (and convince them he's signing at $5M).

[Mr.Coffee]

Which is why you don’t sign Zadorov.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It’s possible it could be a disaster for Vegas but I think that’s very improbable. Just like how it’s possible he could get hit by a car and never play again it’s possible but improbable.

I should have said “I think” this will prove to be a Flames mistake. I also am making the assumption that the rumours of asking price, Flames being in on it, etc. are all true- so from a fairly biased lens I will happily admit.

I also think that if Eichel turns out to be as legit as I think he is, we will read on this website all kinds of different theories as to why Calgary couldn’t / shouldn’t have done it, or that we will never know what happened, or whatever. And as a Flames fan, it is kind of annoying not having a number one C forever and then not only that but being stuck in constant mediocrity where you’ll never get a high enough draft pick to get one.

So once a (lifetime?) player like Eichel comes up- I think you gotta get it done somehow.

no you said

I "vehemently defend the Flames, regardless of context."

because I said Eichel is still an unknown and Vegas needs to clear 12M in cap space.

There is obviously more risk of Eichel not getting back to 100% than someone randomly getting hit by a car. The surgery was a big enough risk at least one team (and by all accounts multiple teams) were not comfortable with it.

I would have traded a lot for Eichel, but don't pretend you know how it will work out.

[hwy19man]

Pregame links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2366866
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...preview_2.html
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...summary_2.html
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/pre...2&home=2&vis=3

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sure, one can always not know anything.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is not accurate if you go follow my posting history as it relates to the Flames. To say I’m always negative is simply not true.

I love the Flames, always will.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It’s not a shot, you consistently and vehemently defend the Flames, regardless of context. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

It doesn’t make you right all the time though.

triple post score!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

30 other teams also passed at that opportunity.

A bunch of other teams passed on ROR when he was available too, and he went on to win a Conn Smythe as the #1C for his new team.

Just because a bunch of other teams made a stupid mistake doesn't mean we should be happy the Flame also made that same mistake.

[Mr.Coffee]

The problem with 30 other teams did or didn’t do something argument is you can literally use it any time in any situation.

It’s meaningless.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And a net $5 mil cap hit.
And no cap dump going the other way.
And no asset over the age of 25 going the other way.

Punch that in the calculator and see what the Flames offer has to look like.

An NHL front office with six months to come up with a solution to those issues should be able to do so.

Simply not signing Blake Coleman or acquiring Nikita Zadorov would've solved the first two issues re: the cap.

Include the last three 1st round picks - I buy that they just liked Krebs more than Zary, I don't for a second buy that they'd like Krebs more than Coronato, Zary and Pelletier.

I would be willing to bet that all three of those players combine to be less productive than Jack Eichel over the next 4.5 years.

Mangiapane/Tuch is a wash - Mangiapane as an RFA would've been a solid bet to extend with the Sabres and costs less right now in real dollars.

Tkachuk, if he'd been included, could've returned another mid-1st ++ as a deadline rental, and helped them win some games in the interim.

A 1st this year - who cares. We're not drafting top-3. We're not drafting top-10.

I would've trusted Sutter and the core to fight to stay between 6th and 10th most of the year, and when Eichel did come back after the Olympic break, they'd be ready to roll.

Just my opinion.

[midniteowl]

Sigh, why are all these discussion on what the Flames mgmt should've done to acquire Eichel? This is a GDT?

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The problem with 30 other teams did or didn’t do something argument is you can literally use it any time in any situation.

It’s meaningless.

No it really isn't meaningless. I can understand if the package to get Eichel was a really big one that would be hard to beat but it was a pretty meh offer like I expected and even said in the Eichel thread before he got traded.

So I think it does matter if 30 other Gms couldn't or weren't willing to beat the offer. It tells you a lot about his value and how can you blame 1 GM? Just because you're a fan of the Flames?

[OutOfTheCube]

Geez a lot of salt in this thread. Be mad at your stingy GM, not the Sabres.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Geez a lot of salt in this thread. Be mad at your stingy GM, not the Sabres.

Who is mad at the Sabres in here?

They probably made a poor trade but that is pretty normal for them no?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Geez a lot of salt in this thread. Be mad at your stingy GM, not the Sabres.

Way ahead of you.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

projected lines based on morning skate

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/proj...es/c-328064570

Lines
Johnny Gaudreau - Elias Lindholm - Matthew Tkachuk

Blake Coleman - Mikael Backlund - Andrew Mangiapane

Dillon Dube - Sean Monahan - Tyler Pitlick

Milan Lucic - Brad Richardson - Trevor Lewis


Pairings
Oliver Kylington - Christopher Tanev

Noah Hanifin - Rasmus Andersson

Nikita Zadorov - Erik Gudbranson



Goalie
Jacob Markstrom

I'd actually like to switch Coleman and Tkachuk on those lines. I think that Coleman has the speed to keep up with Gaudreau in transition, while Tkachuk has shown chemistry with Backlund and Mangiapane before.