I think if this were the 80s or 90s, where star forwards played upwards of 27 minutes a night, you would have a pretty valid criticism.
But these days, star players often end up with less minutes than roleplayers.
For instance not including tonight's game (since it isn't up on hockey-reference yet), our best goalscorer Andrew Mangiapane (who is more than a depth player) is averaging 14:40
Trevor Lewis is averaging 13:37
One guy has 9 goals and 2 assists in 13 games
One guy has... 2 assists in 13 games
It's hard to assess what "depth" scoring really is, but it's evident to me that the Flames have not had "depth scoring" since our 4th line was Bennett-Ryan-Ritchie - and we traded Bennett in the midst of that line's scoring run to watch him emerge as, at worst a #1B centre.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Nope. They have not been excellent in 4 of the last 6 games.
Their job is to produce.
Again, top lines don’t produce every single game. Look it up. This isn’t basketball. There are lulls in a season, lines can get cold, opposition shutdown lines get paid too.
For the minutes these guys play, I think they’re doing great on a defensive minded team. Go look up the stats of every other forward not named Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Mangiapane and tell me you still think they should be singled out.
Losing sucks, especially to the Leafs, but the team is 2 points out of the division lead (EDM does have one less GP) and a points% of .643 which equates to a 105 point team. Step off the ledge.
And yet, only 1 point above the playoff cutline. And you know Colorado & Vegas are going to be fighting their way into playoff spots before all is said & done. It's looking like it'll be a relatively tough year to make the playoffs.
Losing sucks, especially to the Leafs, but the team is 2 points out of the division lead (EDM does have one less GP) and a points% of .643 which equates to a 105 point team. Step off the ledge.
Season is still going just fine.
It just sucks using up your best Sutter hockey games on New York and New Jersey, and saving none of it for Montreal and Toronto.
These are the two I would prefer to take to the cleaners. #### both of them and their media .
The only things Lindholm is better at, is faceoffs (and I don't think the difference between ~48% and ~52% is significant enough to lose sleep over) and on the powerplay, where he's the only righthanded shot on a team loaded with lefties.
Backlund is a better playmaker than Lindholm, more shifty through the neutral zone, equal without the puck defensively, faster with/without the puck, and anything he lacks in raw finishing ability he makes up in volume. As a centre, he's never had a linemate like Johnny Gaudreau in his whole career, and he's never had the benefit of offensive line deployment either.
I actually think along the same lines. Backlund at his very best, looks like an elite 2 way center. He probably has the most tools out of all the centers on this team, the problem though is his range, we could see his ”A” game just as often as we can see his “D” game.
Lindholm on the other hand, may not have as many tools as Backlund possesses as a center, but we basically see Lindholm’s “A” & “B” game every game. He’s extremely consistent and you can rely on him to do good work on both ends of the ice all the time.
The Following User Says Thank You to Classic_Sniper For This Useful Post:
And yet, only 1 point above the playoff cutline. And you know Colorado & Vegas are going to be fighting their way into playoff spots before all is said & done. It's looking like it'll be a relatively tough year to make the playoffs.
Are you suggesting 105 points wouldn't make the playoffs?
Are you suggesting 105 points wouldn't make the playoffs?
Things will even out...96 will do it as always
No, I'm just saying this team is precariously close to falling below a playoff-spot pace. A regulation loss on Sunday would drop their pace to 98 points, which is not a guaranteed playoff spot. The West seems to be more competitive than usual this year.
The Following User Says Thank You to Mathgod For This Useful Post:
No, I'm just saying this team is precariously close to falling below a playoff-spot pace. A regulation loss on Sunday would drop their pace to 98 points, which is not a guaranteed playoff spot. The West seems to be more competitive than usual this year.
If you consider the schedule so far is that really that bad? Still early in road trip but if the Flames can survive this 7 game trip the schedule the rest of the season is way in their favour
This team has got great goaltending, Mangiapane continues to get better and better, Kylington isn’t just playing his way on to the team he’s been borderline elite yet we lose in OT on a back to back against a very good team and it’s the end of the world again. Every team in the nhl has stretches that they don’t play well.
No, I'm just saying this team is precariously close to falling below a playoff-spot pace. A regulation loss on Sunday would drop their pace to 98 points, which is not a guaranteed playoff spot. The West seems to be more competitive than usual this year.
Things will even out 96 points will do it...respect solid snake
It feels like the schedule is starting to take a toll on these guys. With that ridiculous week off to start and the relentless style of play that they started the season with, not really a huge surprise with the letdown.
Not a ton of time to regroup though. Need to figure it out.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod
No, I'm just saying this team is precariously close to falling below a playoff-spot pace. A regulation loss on Sunday would drop their pace to 98 points, which is not a guaranteed playoff spot. The West seems to be more competitive than usual this year.
If you consider the schedule so far is that really that bad? Still early in road trip but if the Flames can survive this 7 game trip the schedule the rest of the season is way in their favour
This team has got great goaltending, Mangiapane continues to get better and better, Kylington isn’t just playing his way on to the team he’s been borderline elite yet we lose in OT on a back to back against a very good team and it’s the end of the world again. Every team in the nhl has stretches that they don’t play well.
Touché. It's just a bit frustrating to see 6-1-1 turn into 7-3-4. Also frustrating to see Chucky & Lindy go silent when their team could really use a goal at key times. Hopefully things turn around for the better, soon. To me the game on Sunday will be an indicator of how big a step this team has taken from last year... can they secure 2 points against inferior competition when they really need to? Or will they simply play down to the level of their competition?
Johnny is an excellent player. For the team to win consistently, he has to produce consistently.
The Flames are not a gifted offensive team.
Production does not exist in a vacuum.
Let's look at our old friend Sam Bennett
Mis-used as a grinding winger with spotty minutes, he was an inconsistent scorer here.
Properly used as an 18-minute-a-night all-situations play-driving centre, with a playmaking winger, he has been a consistent scorer in Florida.
Even though he brought an element to the centre ice position that no centre Gaudreau has ever played with brought - skill, speed, and creativity through the middle of the ice:
The Flames never thought to pair these two together (at the correct positions) for an extended period, for reasons that still baffle me.
Instead they have, for seven years, kept Gaudreau glued to centres who are consistently so late in joining the rush that... there is no rush at all.
Nikita Kucherov has arguably been one of the most productive wingers in the world in a loooong time. But look at the kind of support he gets from Point:
Can you even remember the last time Gaudreau's centre did something like that? I'm not talking about Point's hands here, but the ability to create the play in transition with his speed and hustle when Kucherov had NOTHING.
I cannot. I can remember his defensemen... Russell... Giordano... Hamilton... Brodie.. Kylington... Hanifin doing that. Guys like Lindholm and Monahan... they'd still be at the red line when Gaudreau is doing the same move Kucherov does here.
Our centres have always let Gaudreau down in transition, and he gets the blame for it every time he stops up in his zone while outnumbered.
We're at a point where it's time to finally give Gaudreau a centre like Backlund or Dube. It doesn't need to be the highest scoring centre on the team. They don't need to be joined at the hip for every shift either.
But Gaudreau deserves more than just cycle cycle cycle in congested offensive zones. He's not Daniel Sedin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper
I actually think along the same lines. Backlund at his very best, looks like an elite 2 way center. He probably has the most tools out of all the centers on this team, the problem though is his range, we could see his ”A” game just as often as we can see his “D” game.
Lindholm on the other hand, may not have as many tools as Backlund possesses as a center, but we basically see Lindholm’s “A” & “B” game every game. He’s extremely consistent and you can rely on him to do good work on both ends of the ice all the time.
I don't think we see Lindholm's B game all that often. He masks a lot of awful nights with a powerplay point here or there, or tap-ins created by the best forward on the Flames.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 11-12-2021 at 10:25 PM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
