2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Explain the logic on this one. Would you seriously give up a 1st round pick for Alex Tuch? Monahan gets #### on continually here, but he never had a surgery as severe as Tuch did with the shoulder reconstruction. People speak about damaged goods, but Tuch is the definition of damaged goods. No way does Tuch return a 1st round pick with his current condition. He's as big as risk as they come at the moment. So in reality, Vegas got a mid to let 1st in Krebs, a top 10 protected first (which means middle of the pack at best), a damaged player that might get a at best a second, or more likely a third or a fourth, if floated alone with his current injury, and a second round pick. Far from the bounty of firsts Buffalo expected.

Tuch would bring in a lot more than a 3rd or 4th round pick. You have no clue what you are talking about.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Explain the logic on this one. Would you seriously give up a 1st round pick for Alex Tuch? Monahan gets #### on continually here, but he never had a surgery as severe as Tuch did with the shoulder reconstruction. People speak about damaged goods, but Tuch is the definition of damaged goods. No way does Tuch return a 1st round pick with his current condition. He's as big as risk as they come at the moment. So in reality, Vegas got a mid to let 1st in Krebs, a top 10 protected first (which means middle of the pack at best), a damaged player that might get a at best a second, or more likely a third or a fourth, if floated alone with his current injury, and a second round pick. Far from the bounty of firsts Buffalo expected.

Just my opinion. Tuch is worth a 1st, for sure. I’ll stand by that.

To elaborate, Tuch is a 25 year old 6’4” 220 lbs RHS RW who can move and has hands. He was on a 26 goal pace last year playing 3rd line and, IIRC, some PP2 time. Sure, he has had a significant surgery, but it’s not as though he should be left for dead.

Speaking of the white hot takes you alluded to a couple days ago, Tuch being worth a 3rd or 4th fits the bill. Bone up on your hockey knowledge, man.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Tuch would bring in a lot more than a 3rd or 4th round pick. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Really? You're going to give a 1st or a 2nd on a 25 year old guy who just completed reconstructive shoulder surgery? A guy whose career best was 20 goals and 52 points prior to the surgery? Tuch is majorly damaged goods. Look into the rebound from this type of surgery. It isn't good. The best value he brings to the Sabres is he's local boy they can trot out in front of cameras and say how badly he wanted to pay for the organization.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Really? You're going to give a 1st or a 2nd on a 25 year old guy who just completed reconstructive shoulder surgery? A guy whose career best was 20 goals and 52 points prior to the surgery? Tuch is majorly damaged goods. Look into the rebound from this type of surgery. It isn't good. The best value he brings to the Sabres is he's local boy they can trot out in front of cameras and say how badly he wanted to pay for the organization.

Lol Tuch is damaged goods but Eichel isn't

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Tuch is majorly damaged goods. Look into the rebound from this type of surgery. It isn't good.

Why don't you share the information you have researched that caused you to come to this conclusion.

Too many people throw around claims like this and never back it up. Shoulder surgery is pretty routine across all major sports. Do you have studies that show "it isn't good"?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol Tuch is damaged goods but Eichel isn't

Wait, who said Eichel isn't damaged goods? Eichel is very much damaged goods. That's why I was always dead set against selling the farm for him. Make a reasonable deal, but recognize the risk with the player. Anyone who is looking at Alex Tuch and doesn't recognize the risk associated with his shoulder surgery is a moron. Reconstructive surgery on shoulders is a gamble, and more often than not they end up seeing careers prematurely end because they fail more than they hold together under the strain of high performance athletics. Eichel is as big a risk as Tuch is, except there is a wealth of data to bring the future of Tuch into serious question, while the literature on Eichel's surgery is much thinner.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Why don't you share the information you have researched that caused you to come to this conclusion.

Too many people throw around claims like this and never back it up. Shoulder surgery is pretty routine across all major sports. Do you have studies that show "it isn't good"?

Depends on how shoulder surgery is defined.

Labrum surgery is pretty common but i believe Tuch had his shoulder completely reconstructed which is why his recovery will take him well into the new year. Much more intricate stuff.

No idea what the success of coming back from it is, but certainly is major surgery.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

New York wants a center they have 7.3M in cap space and this way they wouldn’t necessarily have to give Strome a raise at the end of the year and can let him walk

Let Strome walk to keep Monny?

Not a winning play.

Maybe if Monny captures his past form.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Why don't you share the information you have researched that caused you to come to this conclusion.

Too many people throw around claims like this and never back it up. Shoulder surgery is pretty routine across all major sports. Do you have studies that show "it isn't good"?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29076041/
https://aoj.amegroups.com/article/view/3875/4515

Recovery from this type of shoulder surgery is a challenge. Return to the same level of play is limited. Reinjury is significantly higher.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29076041/
https://aoj.amegroups.com/article/view/3875/4515

Recovery from this type of shoulder surgery is a challenge. Return to the same level of play is limited. Reinjury is significantly higher.

I tend to agree, a good friend had reconstructed shoulder surgery and it took him 2 years to even swing a golf club without restriction and even now after about 4 years it's still not as good as his other one. I think Eichel's neck surgery will look minor compared.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Let Strome walk to keep Monny?

Not a winning play.

Maybe if Monny captures his past form.

Monny isn't going to regain his offensive form playing with Lewis and Richardson. He is down there to work on his defensive game, and won't see better linemates until Sutter is happy.

Speaking of which, so far as impactful hockey players Lewis and Richardson seems like really nice guys. How about sending one or both to Arizona with a 7th round pick for Christian Fisher. If a player is going to have hands of stone, it would be nice if they were really fast, too.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Monahan >> Strome

Put Panarin with Monahan (Panarin > Gaudreau) and you're looking at a really good combo if it works well.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Monahan >> Strome

Put Panarin with Monahan (Panarin > Gaudreau) and you're looking at a really good combo if it works well.

I disagree with this entirely at this stage.

Let's look at how they're both starting this year:

Gaudreau (10 GP, 2G, 9A, 11 PTS)
CF%: 56.79
SF%: 51.97
GF%: 100
xGF%: 57.26
SCF%: 59.56
HDCF%: 59.09

Panarin (11GP, 2G, 9A, 11 PTS)
CF%: 45.34
SF%: 39.335
GF%: 33.33
xGF%: 44.07
SCF%: 44.30
HDCF%: 47.73

Now that Gaudreau is away from Monahan, I think you'll see this argument that "Panarin > Gaudreau" is just wrong. Panarin = Gaudreau. Gaudreau's point totals over the last two seasons have been destroyed by horrible coaching and an incredibly bad linemate.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I disagree with this entirely at this stage.

Let's look at how they're both starting this year:

Gaudreau (10 GP, 2G, 9A, 11 PTS)
CF%: 56.79
SF%: 51.97
GF%: 100
xGF%: 57.26
SCF%: 59.56
HDCF%: 59.09

Panarin (11GP, 2G, 9A, 11 PTS)
CF%: 45.34
SF%: 39.335
GF%: 33.33
xGF%: 44.07
SCF%: 44.30
HDCF%: 47.73

Now that Gaudreau is away from Monahan, I think you'll see this argument that "Panarin > Gaudreau" is just wrong. Panarin = Gaudreau. Gaudreau's point totals over the last two seasons have been destroyed by horrible coaching and an incredibly bad linemate.

You may want to look at more than a 9 game sample size in making that argument.

It’s really funny that the post before yours says that Monny is quite a bit better than Strome, yet you are suggesting that Monny has destroyed Johnny.


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[sureLoss]

Seravalli saying the Sens and Habs showing the most interest in Kravtsov

https://t.co/JKuZVVbwBi

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There's a bunch of ways this can bigtime backfire for Vegas:

If they miss the POs entirely. Then they can't "Kucherov" Eichel and then they have to sell good players for nothing (or negative value).

If the injured players return early and the have to sell at negative value.

If Eichel has a bad recovery, a slow recovery or no recovery at all (though then I guess they'd have $10M to spend).

If they do all this and Lehner is still no good.

The only way this really works out is if all their injured players recover at a cap-friendly pace and they win the Cup. And then they still have to lose a bunch of salary.

Lehner is a damn good goalie.

He’s weird, even by goalie standards.

But he’s a 2x Jennings winner.

Vegas should’ve gone to him earlier in the playoffs last year.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Seravalli saying the Sens and Habs showing the most interest in Kravtsov

https://t.co/JKuZVVbwBi

He would be a good piece to a rebuilding team, but if I were either team, I am not sure that I would want to be giving up 2022 or 2023 draft picks for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lehner is a damn good goalie.

He’s weird, even by goalie standards.

But he’s a 2x Jennings winner.

Vegas should’ve gone to him earlier in the playoffs last year.

He has been pretty bad so far this year. Mind you, MAF, hasn’t been good either.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He has been pretty bad so far this year. Mind you, MAF, hasn’t been good either.

Lehner hasn’t had a great start, and he’s still 5-5-0, 2.79 and .919 through ten games. He has a body of work that indicates he’s more than worthy of the benefit of the doubt.

Whatever problems Vegas is dealing with, Robin Lehner is the least of their concerns.

[1qqaaz]

I find it very impressive that Lehner has a career 91.8% despite spending the majority of his time on bad Ottawa and Buffalo teams. He has been in the league since 2010 but he's still only 30 years old.

It'll be interesting to see if he actually wins anything now that he's on Vegas.