Should there be a cap on LTIR?

[gvitaly]

Right now there are 16 teams with players on LTIR. 13 of those teams are using LTIR for cap relief purposes.

Current LTIR:
Team.....Remaining LTIR.......Available LTIR....#of players

VGK..........$16.13M................$27.22M....... ....4

MTL..........$12.14M................$21.76M....... ....2

TBL............$8.09M................$17.26M...... .....3

PIT............$4.77M...................$9.50M.... ......1

WSH..........$5.62M..................$9.20M....... ....1

PHI............$5.58M..................$7.15M..... ......1

VAN...........$0.35M..................$6.61M...... .....4

EDM...........$1.30M..................$6.45M...... .....3

WPG..........$0.26M...................$5.29M...... .....1

CHI............$0.18M..................$5.17M..... .......2

DAL...........$0.73M...................$4.92M..... .......1

CAR...........$1.79M...................$4.05M..... .......1

STL...........$0.13M...................$2.75M..... .......1

COL...........$0.79M...................$2.75M..... .......2

FLA...........$0.95M...................$1.67M..... ........1

TOR...........$0.82M...................$1.65M..... .......1


My question is whether the league should address it whatsoever, and how. I think its crazy that a team like Vegas can be over $10M over the cap. Last year it was Tampa. I know the owners are not too happy about things like LTI-Retirement, and I'm sure the high escrow might have the players on board with this too.

So what do you think should there be a limit on the amount of cap relief a team can get? either as a total amount for example (10% of the cap), or on a per player basis? You can even get creative and provide LTIR as 50% of the player's cap hit, or up to $3.5M per player.

[mrdonkey]

There should be some sort of restriction on LTIR as it relates to the playoffs, yes. Tampa has already proven that. But the NHL will be hard pressed to enforce it because the PA, and specifically the NHL's darling children in the American South, have benefitted from it.

So, yes, there should be. But, no, there won't be. Profits above fairness.

[DoubleK]

No. Players on IR aren't playing for you.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

No. Players on IR aren't playing for you.

They aren't playing for you until the playoffs.

[PaperBagger'14]

No, but in the playoffs the combined AAV of players should have to be cap compliant

[DoubleK]

Wrong thread

[Geeoff]

LTIR is a protection for the players, not the teams.

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

No, but in the playoffs the combined AAV of players should have to be cap compliant

Players don't get paid in the playoffs, so the combine cap hit of any playoff roster is zero. Pretty much any team that buys at the trade deadline is gonna be way over the cap in terms of AAV, so it would really change the trade deadline

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

No, but in the playoffs the combined AAV of players should have to be cap compliant

The argument against being fully cap compliant in the playoffs is that it would make the trade deadline essentially useless/very lackluster. Teams won't be able to add extra difference makers during the deadline and so on. I think there needs to be some leeway, but there should be a limit as well.

[Geeoff]

If the league didn't have guaranteed contracts, teams would just cut a lot of these guys, so it's not a competitive advantage in most cases. Just a way for guys who have given their bodies to this sport to keep getting paid.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

LTIR is a protection for the players, not the teams.




Players don't get paid in the playoffs, so the combine cap hit of any playoff roster is zero.

It is for the players, even players that develop allergies to their equipment. In many cases it just seems like a convenient hand shake agreement to pay a retired player instead of buying him out. In addition, now it's becoming a way to give your roster a boost for the playoffs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yes. The system is abused. Rule should be no more than 10% of the cap can be hidden on LTIR.

[FanIn80]

I believe these are the numbers that paint the worst picture:

NHL Upper Limit ("cap"): $81.5M

Projected Cap Hit
Vegas Golden Knights: $91,869,239
Montreal Canadiens: $91,034,870
Tampa Bay Lightning: $90,578,282

Coincidence that 3 of the richest teams in the league have figured out a way to each spend $10M over the cap? Remember when that cap was fought for specifically to stop the richest teams from buying up all the players, making it difficult for small markets to compete?

[Weitz]

So punish teams with hurt players?

People find the weirdest things to complain about.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I believe these are the numbers that paint the worst picture:

NHL Upper Limit ("cap"): $81.5M

Projected Cap Hit
Vegas Golden Knights: $91,869,239
Montreal Canadiens: $91,034,870
Tampa Bay Lightning: $90,578,282

Coincidence that 3 of the richest teams in the league have figured out a way to each spend $10M over the cap? Remember when that cap was fought for specifically to prevent from the richest teams buying up all the players, making it difficult for small markets to compete?

We know why Vegas is over.

How many of the players on ltir for Montreal and Tampa are going to play this year?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Weitz

We know why Vegas is over.

How many of the players on ltir for Montreal and Tampa are going to play this year?

I guess we'll see how many of them come back just in time for the playoffs?

[FlamesAddiction]

Side-bar question, but how does the league monitor how it's used? Do doctors have to send weekly updates justifying that they can't play for medical reasons? Do they work on the honour system? If so, that is an issue. I think the league should closely monitor the system.

I also wonder about the players who are basically retiring on the LTIR, who might actually be healthy (although out of shape now), who may have actually been cleared long before they retire.

[FanIn80]

We have 6 players that make more than $5M, with our highest paid player making $7M.

Calgary
Tkachuk, Matthew: $7,000,000
Gaudreau, Johnny: $6,750,000
Monahan, Sean: $6,375,000
Backlund, Mikael: $5,350,000
Lucic, Milan: $5,250,000
Markström, Jacob: $6,000,000

Projected Cap Hit: $81,219,837
Current Cap Space: $316,568

==============================

Vegas has 11 players that make more than $5M, with their highest paid player making $10M.

Vegas
Karlsson, William: $5,900,000
Marchessault, Jonathan: $5,000,000
Smith, Reilly: $5,000,000
Dadonov, Evgeni: $5,000,000
Pietrangelo, Alex: $8,800,000
Martinez, Alec: $5,250,000
Theodore, Shea: $5,200,000
Lehner, Robin: $5,000,000
Eichel, Jack: $10,000,000
Stone, Mark: $9,500,000
Pacioretty, Max: $7,000,000

Projected Cap Hit: $91,869,239
Current Cap Space: $16,128,333


Like, come on. LTIR needs a limit.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I guess we'll see how many of them come back just in time for the playoffs?

For Montreal? You have to make the playoffs before you can come back for them.

[SuperMatt18]

No.

But a team shouldn’t be able to dress a roster who’s combined salary cap hit is over the cap in the playoffs.

You can have those players on your roster but you have to figure out your best lineup under $82M to actually play in the game.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So punish teams with hurt players?

People find the weirdest things to complain about.

I wasn't complaining, but I think it's a discussion worth having.

That's why I was suggesting giving teams some LTIR, but limiting it in one way or another. For example is it really terrible if you get $3.5M for one player to replace your hurt star while he's hurt? I think most teams won't even feel the difference.